Kaiju Fan Confessions

For discussions covering more than one Toho film or show that span across more than one “era.”
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby eabaker » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:31 am

Zarm wrote:
eabaker wrote:
Maritonic wrote:Man, I found Skull Island to be a superior film in every single way to Godzilla 2014. Far more enjoyable with way more memorable characters and way quicker pacing.


I think they each get characterization half right. KSI does have more interesting characters for the most part, but it rarely manages to actually anchor a scene in an individual character's perspective, so we're never fully connected to anyone's emotional journey. G14 has a pretty bland selection of characters, but in both Ford and Serizawa we have anchor points for the experience.



That's a very good way of putting it.


Although I wish I hadn't used "anchor" twice. :(
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Zarm » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:34 am

eabaker wrote:
Zarm wrote:
eabaker wrote:
I think they each get characterization half right. KSI does have more interesting characters for the most part, but it rarely manages to actually anchor a scene in an individual character's perspective, so we're never fully connected to anyone's emotional journey. G14 has a pretty bland selection of characters, but in both Ford and Serizawa we have anchor points for the experience.



That's a very good way of putting it.


Although I wish I hadn't used "anchor" twice. :(


I think it anchors the post with a sense of gravity, that serves to anchor the sentiments expressed in an anchor anchor anchor.

You know?

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Last edited by Zarm on Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Maritonic » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:00 am

eabaker wrote:
Maritonic wrote:Man, I found Skull Island to be a superior film in every single way to Godzilla 2014. Far more enjoyable with way more memorable characters and way quicker pacing.


I think they each get characterization half right. KSI does have more interesting characters for the most part, but it rarely manages to actually anchor a scene in an individual character's perspective, so we're never fully connected to anyone's emotional journey. G14 has a pretty bland selection of characters, but in both Ford and Serizawa we have anchor points for the experience.


Valid points. But what anchor points do we really have for Serizawa?
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby GodzillaFan1990's » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:16 am

I mean if Godzilla (2014) just had a bit more action like at least a 3 minute fight at the airport rather then those cutaways (Once would had been fine) and gave Ford more of a character or had Joe as the lead. I would say I'd enjoy Godzilla more although I still loved it never the less (Mostly Godzilla bias on my part). I get Gareth was trying to do a new approach for the film but IMO I don't think it worked tbh. Especially given folks had been waiting for the film for a decade which was more long enough of a wait and no need for this build-up.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Maritonic » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:17 am

Godzilla's action isn't it's problem. It's acting and pacing is.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby GodzillaFan1990's » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:18 am

Maritonic wrote:Godzilla's action isn't it's problem. It's acting and pacing is.

That too. I forgot to mention it.

With the characters in Kong: Skull Island I found them more fun and likable especially having been given personalities and such.

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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby eabaker » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:18 am

Maritonic wrote:
eabaker wrote:
Maritonic wrote:Man, I found Skull Island to be a superior film in every single way to Godzilla 2014. Far more enjoyable with way more memorable characters and way quicker pacing.


I think they each get characterization half right. KSI does have more interesting characters for the most part, but it rarely manages to actually anchor a scene in an individual character's perspective, so we're never fully connected to anyone's emotional journey. G14 has a pretty bland selection of characters, but in both Ford and Serizawa we have anchor points for the experience.


Valid points. But what anchor points do we really have for Serizawa?


I more mean that his is an anchor. When the action moves away from the Brody family, Serizawa is our consistent POV.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:52 am

I dunno guys. The pacing and characters is what KILLED Skull Island for me. I thought the overall characters of LPG were better and far more interesting than the overall characters of Skull Island. Conrad in particular stands out as the single worst character in the Monsterverse so far. In spite of supposedly being the main protagonist (The movie doesn't do a good job of identifying who the main lead is and, as eabaker mentioned, rarely grounds the scene in anyone's perspective), Conrad serves absolutely no purpose to the film's plot. Does he specifically contribute to anything to the plot or themes? No. Does he develop a deeper relationship with or act as a foil to any of the other characters? No. Does his emotional arc get resolved in the movie? No. At best he sort of leads Team A through the jungle initially, but even THAT role gets taken by Marlow, who's not only experienced with surviving Skull Island but also has military training.

Conrad should have been cut from the movie entirely. Give more development time to Weaver. Give her an interest in Monarch. It's implied she suspects they're up to something in the beginning but never follows through on that and leaves that idea dangling without payoff. Go back to that and examine it. Maybe she lost someone to a monster and wants to expose Monarch to the world or something? Just give her *some* investment. Give her character a goal. Give her some god damn skreeonking character development because the only people in this movie that had any sort of arc were Marlow and Packard!

... What was I talking about before I went on a rant?

Pacing. Right.

The pacing and story structure is perfectly serviceable in the first act. But the moment Kong brings down the helicopters it all goes downhill. Nearly everything after that is a series of events with no rhyme or reason. It's just stuff happening, stuff that rarely contributes to the plot, to character growth, or to theme. A lot of it is tasteless shock value. And I'm not saying it's wall to wall pointless action because it's not. Action is skreeonking rare, and many of the times it does happen it's short and underwhelming. Only the Skull Crawlers had any decent scenes. In King Kong, traditionally, the most exciting part of the story is on Skull Island, but now we have a movie named after the skreeonking place and it somehow manages to be the most boring Skull Island since the 1970s! Hell, if it wasn't for the boneyard scene I'd say it actually surpasses it as the most dull and unimaginative Skull Island in history, further wrought with bad pacing and no sense of story structure.

People say LPG is boring and slow paced, but dear god Skull Island is worse in nearly every way. It might *technically* have more action, but it's bad action, and combined with the fact that the pacing is even slower than LPG's I find myself falling asleep to the second act. Even emotional attachment to the characters is better in LPG; at least they have goals and character growth and act like real skreeonking people instead of throwing dumb quips at each other throughout the whole movie!

This post ended up way longer than I thought it would be...
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Godzilla21 wrote:What is up with the American trope of hide the monster?

Jaws happened


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Ryguy wrote:When the new director is announced, I guarantee this fanbase will be torn through the middle...

We're always split down the middle. TK is like a giant buttcrack.


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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby GodzillaFan1990's » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:23 pm

Kaiju-King42 wrote:I dunno guys. The pacing and characters is what KILLED Skull Island for me. I thought the overall characters of LPG were better and far more interesting than the overall characters of Skull Island. Conrad in particular stands out as the single worst character in the Monsterverse so far. In spite of supposedly being the main protagonist (The movie doesn't do a good job of identifying who the main lead is and, as eabaker mentioned, rarely grounds the scene in anyone's perspective), Conrad serves absolutely no purpose to the film's plot. Does he specifically contribute to anything to the plot or themes? No. Does he develop a deeper relationship with or act as a foil to any of the other characters? No. Does his emotional arc get resolved in the movie? No. At best he sort of leads Team A through the jungle initially, but even THAT role gets taken by Marlow, who's not only experienced with surviving Skull Island but also has military training.

Conrad should have been cut from the movie entirely. Give more development time to Weaver. Give her an interest in Monarch. It's implied she suspects they're up to something in the beginning but never follows through on that and leaves that idea dangling without payoff. Go back to that and examine it. Maybe she lost someone to a monster and wants to expose Monarch to the world or something? Just give her *some* investment. Give her character a goal. Give her some god damn skreeonking character development because the only people in this movie that had any sort of arc were Marlow and Packard!

... What was I talking about before I went on a rant?

Pacing. Right.

The pacing and story structure is perfectly serviceable in the first act. But the moment Kong brings down the helicopters it all goes downhill. Nearly everything after that is a series of events with no rhyme or reason. It's just stuff happening, stuff that rarely contributes to the plot, to character growth, or to theme. A lot of it is tasteless shock value. And I'm not saying it's wall to wall pointless action because it's not. Action is skreeonking rare, and many of the times it does happen it's short and underwhelming. Only the Skull Crawlers had any decent scenes. In King Kong, traditionally, the most exciting part of the story is on Skull Island, but now we have a movie named after the skreeonking place and it somehow manages to be the most boring Skull Island since the 1970s! Hell, if it wasn't for the boneyard scene I'd say it actually surpasses it as the most dull and unimaginative Skull Island in history, further wrought with bad pacing and no sense of story structure.

People say LPG is boring and slow paced, but dear god Skull Island is worse in nearly every way. It might *technically* have more action, but it's bad action, and combined with the fact that the pacing is even slower than LPG's I find myself falling asleep to the second act. Even emotional attachment to the characters is better in LPG; at least they have goals and character growth and act like real skreeonking people instead of throwing dumb quips at each other throughout the whole movie!

This post ended up way longer than I thought it would be...

Agree to disagree. I said it before different opinions is what makes this world a much more unique place after all and for that I respect your opinion. ;)

BTW what did you think of Marlow? Curious is all.
Last edited by GodzillaFan1990's on Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby eabaker » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:27 pm

Kaiju-King42 wrote:*snip*


Completely agree with you about Conrad, and you really got to the heart of my problem with the movie there. They had all these ideas for characters, but no real, specific story to tell through them, so you end up things with an apparent protagonist who doesn't actually do anything to drive the narrative at all.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:56 pm

GodzillaFan1990's wrote:BTW what did you think of Marlow? Curious is all.


Strongest character in the movie by a considerable margin. I just wish the rest were more like him.
Godzillian wrote:
Godzilla21 wrote:What is up with the American trope of hide the monster?

Jaws happened


ernesth100 wrote:
Ryguy wrote:When the new director is announced, I guarantee this fanbase will be torn through the middle...

We're always split down the middle. TK is like a giant buttcrack.


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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby GodzillaFan1990's » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:03 pm

Kaiju-King42 wrote:Strongest character in the movie by a considerable margin. I just wish the rest were more like him.

That I'll agree on for sure. Marlow IMO was the best human character in the movie.

I hope he makes a cameo in Godzilla vs. Kong as an old man watching Godzilla and Kong fight on TV making a comment how he's the only one who thinks Kong has what it takes to win and "What's a God to a King".

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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby edgaguirus » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:13 pm

Maritonic wrote:
eabaker wrote:
Maritonic wrote:Man, I found Skull Island to be a superior film in every single way to Godzilla 2014. Far more enjoyable with way more memorable characters and way quicker pacing.


I think they each get characterization half right. KSI does have more interesting characters for the most part, but it rarely manages to actually anchor a scene in an individual character's perspective, so we're never fully connected to anyone's emotional journey. G14 has a pretty bland selection of characters, but in both Ford and Serizawa we have anchor points for the experience.


Valid points. But what anchor points do we really have for Serizawa?



I can think of one, when he reveals the watch. It seems to give reason for his objection to the military's plan.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Maritonic » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:13 pm

edgaguirus wrote:
Maritonic wrote:
eabaker wrote:
I think they each get characterization half right. KSI does have more interesting characters for the most part, but it rarely manages to actually anchor a scene in an individual character's perspective, so we're never fully connected to anyone's emotional journey. G14 has a pretty bland selection of characters, but in both Ford and Serizawa we have anchor points for the experience.


Valid points. But what anchor points do we really have for Serizawa?



I can think of one, when he reveals the watch. It seems to give reason for his objection to the military's plan.


Comparatively, characters in Skull Island have plenty of those.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby eabaker » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:46 pm

GodzillaFan1990's wrote:
Kaiju-King42 wrote:Strongest character in the movie by a considerable margin. I just wish the rest were more like him.

That I'll agree on for sure. Marlow IMO was the best human character in the movie.

I hope he makes a cameo in Godzilla vs. Kong as an old man watching Godzilla and Kong fight on TV making a comment how he's the only one who thinks Kong has what it takes to win and "What's a God to a King".


I think it would be stronger movie overall if you dropped Conrad and basically gave all of his screen time to Marlow. The movie should really have been an ideological clash between Marlow and Packard.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Tyrant_Lizard_King » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:12 pm

edgaguirus wrote:I can think of one, when he reveals the watch. It seems to give reason for his objection to the military's plan.


God I hate that scene. It goes absolutely nowhere and feels like forced lip service to lazily add an anti nuclear message.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby eabaker » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:21 pm

Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote:
edgaguirus wrote:I can think of one, when he reveals the watch. It seems to give reason for his objection to the military's plan.


God I hate that scene. It goes absolutely nowhere and feels like forced lip service to lazily add an anti nuclear message.


And seems highly questionable considering Watanabe's age.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:07 am

Kaiju-King42 wrote:
The pacing and story structure is perfectly serviceable in the first act. But the moment Kong brings down the helicopters it all goes downhill. Nearly everything after that is a series of events with no rhyme or reason. It's just stuff happening, stuff that rarely contributes to the plot, to character growth, or to theme. A lot of it is tasteless shock value. And I'm not saying it's wall to wall pointless action because it's not. Action is skreeonking rare, and many of the times it does happen it's short and underwhelming. Only the Skull Crawlers had any decent scenes. In King Kong, traditionally, the most exciting part of the story is on Skull Island, but now we have a movie named after the skreeonking place and it somehow manages to be the most boring Skull Island since the 1970s! Hell, if it wasn't for the boneyard scene I'd say it actually surpasses it as the most dull and unimaginative Skull Island in history, further wrought with bad pacing and no sense of story structure.

People say LPG is boring and slow paced, but dear god Skull Island is worse in nearly every way. It might *technically* have more action, but it's bad action, and combined with the fact that the pacing is even slower than LPG's I find myself falling asleep to the second act. Even emotional attachment to the characters is better in LPG; at least they have goals and character growth and act like real skreeonking people instead of throwing dumb quips at each other throughout the whole movie!

No, this isn’t even an opinion, this is just plain truth. Run this film by any analystic critic or professional film buff and they’d probably say just about the same thing said here.

I really hope more people wake up and realize this. You’re free to enjoy the movie all you want, but these are facts, the pacing is off and it makes the entire film after Kong brings down the helicopters feel weird.

It all feels very out of touch and unattached and that’s not what a Kong movie should be.

Godzilla gets the pass because although it does drag in the second act, it has this lingering gloom about it plus the acting, action, and tone actually create emotional weight and you feel every impact in that movie.

You feel the chaos in G14, in Kong it’s just swept along.
Yah gotta be blind not to see this…
Last edited by PitchBlackProgress on Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Grievous » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:34 am

PitchBlackProgress wrote:I really hope more people wake up and realize this. You’re free to enjoy the movie all you want, but these are facts, the pacing is off and it makes the entire film after Kong brings down the helicopters feel weird.

Well...perhaps that was a creative/stylistic choice by the writer/director?

I mean...not every film has to play by a certain set of rules right?

Not every film has to "obey the laws" of pacing?

I mean...I love watching M. Night Shyamalan's films...mainly because
he clearly doesn't care for "conventional" storytelling & while I admit
a lot of his films are strange, stilted & uneven...those are the some
of the main reasons I enjoy his films so much.

I mean personally I've never a problem with the pacing of K:SI...but
then I'm no "qualified" film expert. I just know what I like...and I like
K:SI...warts & all.

I mean...if YOU want to do an in-depth, film school style dissection
of K:SI...then that's cool...but I'd personally rather just watch the film
& enjoy it.

Does it have flaws? Yes.

Do I care about those flaws? No.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:47 am

Grievous wrote:
PitchBlackProgress wrote:I really hope more people wake up and realize this. You’re free to enjoy the movie all you want, but these are facts, the pacing is off and it makes the entire film after Kong brings down the helicopters feel weird.

Well...perhaps that was a creative/stylistic choice by the writer/director?

I mean...not every film has to play by a certain set of rules right?

Not every film has to "obey the laws" of pacing?


No, they don't have to. But it's important to remember those guidelines exist for a reason; it's easy to screw up once you deviate. For PBP and I at least, it didn't end up working well for the film.

I don't think I'd go so far to say that what I wrote was plain truth as PBP said; I believe there is some degree of subjectivity when it comes to film, even if I do think Skull Island is pretty overrated. A lot of my vitriol towards the film isn't even directed at the film itself, nor its fans – but rather out of fear of the future direction of the Monsterverse. I loved LPG's approach, and although I'm certain a theoretical Gareth Edwards sequel would have delivered both more screen time and action, I'm concerned that the terrific, awe inspiring presence of the monsters will be lost in KotM. The first trailer (I'm avoiding the second one to keep things fresh) seems to hint it might go in that direction, but I can't help but remember how amazing Kong's first trailer was.

I guess I feel that Kong was in a way an over-correction in response to the criticisms that plagued LPG, and in a way that only made the movie lesser. And that it seems things will be continuing that way in the future is what really lends my anger towards the film.

If that makes any sense.
Godzillian wrote:
Godzilla21 wrote:What is up with the American trope of hide the monster?

Jaws happened


ernesth100 wrote:
Ryguy wrote:When the new director is announced, I guarantee this fanbase will be torn through the middle...

We're always split down the middle. TK is like a giant buttcrack.


Anno wrote:never forget tadpole :godzilla:





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