Toho Kingdom

Maritonic wrote:

GodzillaFan1990's wrote:I'm so adopting Anguirus being an evolved armadillosuchus as a headcanon.

But...don't they literally identify his species in Raids?

Plus, as I pointed out above, they identify it via his name.

eabaker wrote:

Maritonic wrote:

GodzillaFan1990's wrote:I'm so adopting Anguirus being an evolved armadillosuchus as a headcanon.

But...don't they literally identify his species in Raids?

Plus, as I pointed out above, they identify it via his name.

"He is a member of the Angurius family of Fire Monsters and can wipe out the Human Race"

"This is bad, this is bad. Every lesson we've ever learned on the forum about Angurius has told us this. In case anyone doesn't know a new book came out and we learned so much and Angurius's bio as follows is this. It is called Angliasaurus Killer Of The Living. A specimen of Giant Reptile who roamed the Earth millions of years ago. Murderers, original plundering murderers who killed everything in their way

Ernormous in their size, tremendous in their strength

That eat fire

eabaker wrote:

Maritonic wrote:

GodzillaFan1990's wrote:I'm so adopting Anguirus being an evolved armadillosuchus as a headcanon.

But...don't they literally identify his species in Raids?

Plus, as I pointed out above, they identify it via his name.

I mean, that doesn't necessarily have to mean anything. Gojira is a portmanteau of "gorilla" and "whale" and he resembles neither, and Anguirus is clearly not just an oversized ankylosaur. Besides that, there is a prehistoric crocodile species named Ankylosuchus out there; it's not as if the ankylosaurs have a monopoly on the "ankylo-" prefix. If it bothers people that much, you could easily handwave it by saying "scientists initially that Anguirus was a massive, carnivorous relative of the ankylosaurs, but recent findings have led them to believe he is instead more closely related to crocodilians than dinosaurs," or something in that vein. In any case, it wouldn't really have an effect on the character of Anguirus himself.

In a similar vein, I wouldn't mind an Angurius that was more explicitly like an Ankylosaurus in design. You can't just make him an oversized ankylosaur, of course - in my mind he still should have an elongated snout, a spiky back, and other features that make him a unique design - but making him an explicit herbivore, giving him a beak and molars instead of his current crocodilian mouth, giving him a club tail, etc. are all things I could live with. Sort of like Matt Frank's Neo design for Anguirus.

GFW Anguirus already has a tail club so there is some precedence for it.

GFW Anguirus is just sooo forgettable in my eyes. Nothing about him gave me the feeling of the Showa Anguirus. Yes, hes a fighter in the film and all that, but it just never gave me the impression it should warrant as it didnt resonate with me. I dont know. It felt like a distant cousin to the Showa Anguirus.....I know many liked his design but not me. I didnt think it was the worst or anything like that but just not my cup o tea.

goji89 wrote:GFW Anguirus is just sooo forgettable in my eyes. Nothing about him gave me the feeling of the Showa Anguirus. Yes, hes a fighter in the film and all that, but it just never gave me the impression it should warrant as it didnt resonate with me. I dont know. It felt like a distant cousin to the Showa Anguirus.....I know many liked his design but not me. [border]I didnt think it was the worst or anything like that[/border] but just not my cup o tea.

I didn't think it was the worst design in that movie, but I certainly thought it was the worst Angilas design we've had.

Personality wise, it wasn't a good Anguirus but I think it was a pretty alright redesign. If it had been featured in a movie that was more like what we've come to expect from the character, I think it would've been much more well received.

eabaker wrote: I didn't think it was the worst design in that movie, but I certainly thought it was the worst Angilas design we've had.

I think 1955 Anguirus takes that place for me, and I like that design. It's just, in the context of the movie, it's way too inconsistent. Some shots it looks great, other shots it's an atrocious puppet. It works much better outside the movie in figure or drawing form for me.

It looked close enough that you knew it was him....I didnt like his humanoid hands his thick neck with small head and what look like horns for ears....It sucked.

Right thread!

I really don’t like Battra. Like, I don’t like him at all. I can’t bloody stand him, actually. As far as I’m concerned, Battra is the most uninspired and lazy creation of the entire Heisei era, and it doesn’t help that he was also featured in the worst Godzilla film of said era. Literally, the only saving grace to this craptastic shitshow of a Kaiju, is his design, and even that isn’t mind blowing nor awesome either. Plus, as a side note, Battra’s AI in the PS4 game just all around sucks. Aside from Mothra larvae, he is the most rage inducing character to fight against, and I wish there was a way to customize a setting in the game to make it to where I would never have to see him again.

For me, Battra could and should stay firmly in the 90s with his shitty movie, and should never be reintroduced/revived for another movie or video game again.

I just don’t bloody like him .


EDIT: Oh! And the fact that Battra’s roar is literally a blatant reuse of Rodan’s screech, just puts him further down on my list.

Godzilla165 wrote:Right thread!

I really don’t like Battra. Like, I don’t like him at all. I can’t bloody stand him, actually. As far as I’m concerned, Battra is the most uninspired and lazy creation of the entire Heisei era, and it doesn’t help that he was also featured in the worst Godzilla film of said era. Literally, the only saving grace to this craptastic shitshow of a Kaiju, is his design, and even that isn’t mind blowing nor awesome either. Plus, as a side note, Battra’s AI in the PS4 game just all around sucks. Aside from Mothra larvae, he is the most rage inducing character to fight against, and I wish there was a way to customize a setting in the game to make it to where I would never have to see him again.

For me, Battra could and should stay firmly in the 90s with his shitty movie, and should never be reintroduced/revived for another movie or video game again.

I just don’t bloody like him .


EDIT: Oh! And the fact that Battra’s roar is literally a blatant reuse of Rodan’s screech, just puts him further down on my list.

Godzilla165 wrote:Right thread!

I really don’t like Battra. Like, I don’t like him at all. I can’t bloody stand him, actually. As far as I’m concerned, Battra is the most uninspired and lazy creation of the entire Heisei era, and it doesn’t help that he was also featured in the worst Godzilla film of said era. Literally, the only saving grace to this craptastic shitshow of a Kaiju, is his design, and even that isn’t mind blowing nor awesome either. Plus, as a side note, Battra’s AI in the PS4 game just all around sucks. Aside from Mothra larvae, he is the most rage inducing character to fight against, and I wish there was a way to customize a setting in the game to make it to where I would never have to see him again.

For me, Battra could and should stay firmly in the 90s with his shitty movie, and should never be reintroduced/revived for another movie or video game again.

I just don’t bloody like him .


EDIT: Oh! And the fact that Battra’s roar is literally a blatant reuse of Rodan’s screech, just puts him further down on my list.

I never was a big fan of Battra, but I guess your explanation sums up my thoughts, haha.

Now, see... I really like Battra as a concept. His execution in his movie was bland and forgettable, but I feel like he has a ton of potential to be interesting. He exists to protect the Earth, and therefore should be in a constant state of moral dilemma. Humans are terrestrial animals that should fall under his protection, but we severely abuse the environment and selfishly wipe out other species, so... does he slaughter us, or concede that some of us are worth keeping around? And what about his fellow kaiju? Godzilla torches and tramples and irradiates everything around him, but then serves as a major line of defense against even worse threats like Ghidorah, so Battra might end up fighting or joining forces with him at any time. Same goes for most other kaiju. I can easily see Battra serving as this wildcard character that can play hero, villain, or neutral party unpredictably, just trying to keep things balanced as best he can.

Also, he could really use a fairy priestess or two (Belvera?), and a revised power set based around lightning and other natural forces.

JAGzilla wrote:Now, see... I really like Battra as a concept. His execution in his movie was bland and forgettable, but I feel like he has a ton of potential to be interesting. He exists to protect the Earth, and therefore should be in a constant state of moral dilemma. Humans are terrestrial animals that should fall under his protection, but we severely abuse the environment and selfishly wipe out other species, so... does he slaughter us, or concede that some of us are worth keeping around? And what about his fellow kaiju? Godzilla torches and tramples and irradiates everything around him, but then serves as a major line of defense against even worse threats like Ghidorah, so Battra might end up fighting or joining forces with him at any time. Same goes for most other kaiju. I can easily see Battra serving as this wildcard character that can play hero, villain, or neutral party unpredictably, just trying to keep things balanced as best he can.

Also, he could really use a fairy priestess or two (Belvera?), and a revised power set based around lightning and other natural forces.

This guy gets it damn it.....

*looks around for a thumbs up button*

Oh, we haven't reached that technological advancement here in TK.

JAGzilla wrote:Now, see... I really like Battra as a concept. His execution in his movie was bland and forgettable, but I feel like he has a ton of potential to be interesting. He exists to protect the Earth, and therefore should be in a constant state of moral dilemma. Humans are terrestrial animals that should fall under his protection, but we severely abuse the environment and selfishly wipe out other species, so... does he slaughter us, or concede that some of us are worth keeping around? And what about his fellow kaiju? Godzilla torches and tramples and irradiates everything around him, but then serves as a major line of defense against even worse threats like Ghidorah, so Battra might end up fighting or joining forces with him at any time. Same goes for most other kaiju. I can easily see Battra serving as this wildcard character that can play hero, villain, or neutral party unpredictably, just trying to keep things balanced as best he can.

Also, he could really use a fairy priestess or two (Belvera?), and a revised power set based around lightning and other natural forces.

Kaiju movies need more exploration on the quandaries resulting from the moral ambivalence of the monsters.

I think that may read as sarcastic, but I promise it's not.

What I don't like about Battra is that his origin makes Mothra unnecessarily complicated. We're told that Mothra and Battra hate each other, maybe that hatred is more on Battra, but for a creature that's only serving as the living Earth's protector that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It's more logical if Mothra hates Battra, since the latter wiped out the Cosmos civilization when it grew out of control. But that's also a very un-Mothra development and it puts Mothra as the villain. I think it would have been less complicated if they'd just had Battra defend the Earth at all costs (pitting him against humanity in this case) and have Mothra defend Earth and humanity. Neither one is an outright villain, they're both trying to accomplish roughly the same goal, but they're opposed to each others' approach. Basically have them stand against each other ala what was later done in "Ultraman Gaia" but reach a compromise when Godzilla began his rampage.

There's also not much reason for Battra to confront Godzilla as in the finished film. That could have been an excellent opportunity to restate that Godzilla is a living, breathing nuclear weapon. Have Battra oppose that because it could have a potentially disastrous effect on the environment. And that may have been the intent in the film but it's not apparent.

JAGzilla wrote:Also, he could really use a fairy priestess or two

Honestly I didn't like this suggestion at first, but the more I think about it, the more necessary it should have been. Battra's motivations are only explained through the Cosmos, who of course our human protagonists trust implicitly for really no good reason. It only benefits them that the Cosmos are right. However, if you think about it, the Cosmos have every reason to lie: Battra destroyed their civilization and all but the two of them. It even killed their god, although not permanently. If the Cosmos weren't such goody two-shoes they could have manipulated mankind into fighting Battra with them, especially with how suddenly everyone takes them at their word. Having Mothra and the Cosmos as the villains would have been a bad idea though so I'm glad they didn't do that. It still leaves the problem of explaining Battra's motivations through a character or characters that aren't directly at odds with him. My solution would be to have one Shobijin, or Cosmo, involved with Mothra. Eventually another fairy is discovered to be Battra's "priestess." Then you'd have them work together when Mothra and Battra set aside their differences to stop Godzilla. Then you could have a theme of unity, literally between Mothra and Battra but also between Earth and humanity.

The only other thing I don't like about Battra's origin is that, as a creation of the Earth as a living being, doesn't that mean that all the hullabaloo about Battra's sacrifice is pretty irrelevant? There's no reason to suggest the Earth can't just make another Battra or another similar creature in the future if needed. Surely you could have Battra eggs around somewhere. I think the only reason they killed Battra off was so they'd have to give Mothra something to do so she wouldn't be available to meddle in future Godzilla movies. ("Why did G-Force have to handle Godzilla? Couldn't they have had Mothra do it?" That sort of thing.) I'm not a big fan of that kind of thing because while you're saving yourself future headache for your sequels you're doing it at the expense of bad decisions for your current film. It worked out OK in this situation but that line of thinking usually doesn't seem to work too well in storytelling, at least not to me.

Now... all that said, I still like this film just fine. It's entertaining if not particularly intelligent.

I think Battra could have worked better as a generation of Mothra that was born solely to protect Earth. Eventually through war, pollution, creating kaiju, and terraforming the planet/Mothra has its fill and gives life to Battra who is only loyal to the planet, focusing only on the planet’s best interests. This would work well with twin larvae hatching from an egg or even better if this older Mothra realizes the terror it has unleashed and is now faced with having to kill its own progeny.

Maritonic wrote:

GodzillaFan1990's wrote:I'm so adopting Anguirus being an evolved armadillosuchus as a headcanon.

But...don't they literally identify his species in Raids?

They do, yeah, but it's not like future incarnations of Anguirus have to match up with that. Anguirus is so loosely inspired by and differing from an actual Ankylosaurus that he could very easily work as a different type of prehistoric reptile altogether.

There's no reason why Angilas or any other monster has to belong to any existing species. For example, in Gigantis, it's a member of the fictional Anguillasaurus species. It's like Godzilla being a mutated "Godzillasaurus," which isn't at all like the real "Gojirasaurus" that was named in the mid '90s.

People classifying kaiju like Godzilla or Anguirus with real-world counterparts kind of ruins why their so special as kaiju.

UltramanGoji wrote:People classifying kaiju like Godzilla or Anguirus with real-world counterparts kind of ruins why their so special as kaiju.

I somewhat agree when it's not done in a fun "let's look how kaiju stack up in real science" type discussions. The idea of kaiju being a species also somewhat bothers me. I much prefer them being one-off monsters or only a few to exist rather than them just being one of many.