Kaiju Fan Confessions

For discussions covering more than one Toho film or show that span across more than one “era.”
User avatar
Jetty_Jags
Interpol Agent
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:27 am

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Jetty_Jags » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:08 pm

I must say at the very least the new films are reminding me of what I enjoyed (and sometimes am missing in current films) about the genre.
He Jock it Made of Steel

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Keizer
Posts: 7858
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm
Location: 富士山

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:08 pm

Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote:For me a large part of my enjoyment in kaiju films is the destruction and watched the might of man's military fail miserably in the face of the kaiju's overwhelming power. Sadly most recent kaiju films have eschewed most of that to focus purely on monster fights. I love a good monster fight but there's way more to kaiju films that just that. Sadly that's all most recent films seem to care about.

For the most part, the best film have a good mix of destruction, but also other action (ie monster fights) to keep things interesting.

Good examples of this can be seen a lot in certain showa entries and pretty much all the heisei entries.

That's one thing that I didn't like about G14 and KOTM. Sure, we see Godzilla and other monsters briefly engage the monsters, but we never get something where the monster versus the military is the big set piece.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

Tyrant_Lizard_King
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 10155
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:57 am
Location: The Planet Trade HQ
Contact:

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Tyrant_Lizard_King » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:43 pm

Yeah Heisei loved to have those big naval battle setpieces. Practically every film of the era has one.
Rocker, paleo buff, cryptid enthusiast, Dragonball fanatic, and lover of comic book, video game, manga, & anime babes!
Follow me on Twitter, if you dare! https://twitter.com/TLK_1983
Image
Image

User avatar
Living Corpse
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 11635
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:49 pm

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Living Corpse » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:42 am

Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote:Yeah Heisei loved to have those big naval battle setpieces. Practically every film of the era has one.


Heck someone at Toho was toying with the idea of having an entire Heisei movie be all about naval battles.

Yeah, I remember someone (was it you?) being let down that Godzilla didn't fight the U.S. Navy in G2014. And I agree, it was before the world realizes he was one of the good monsters, they could have had him defending himself much as King Kong was when he attacked the helicopters in K:SI. They need to have Johna or some other baddies get their hands on military weapons like fighter jets and ships maybe take over a base cause it's too late for that and it's the only way we're gonna see Monsterverse Godzilla destroy millitary grade weapons while still being the hero.
Image

User avatar
G2000
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 5212
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:34 pm

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby G2000 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:59 am

Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote:For me a large part of my enjoyment in kaiju films is the destruction and watched the might of man's military fail miserably in the face of the kaiju's overwhelming power. Sadly most recent kaiju films have eschewed most of that to focus purely on monster fights. I love a good monster fight but there's way more to kaiju films that just that. Sadly that's all most recent films seem to care about.


The most egregious part is that the Monsterverse repeatedly sets up big monster-military battles but never delivers, oftentimes having them happen offscreen. In G2014 we see the immediate aftermath of a battle with the FeMUTO, with destroyed Abrams tanks being washed down a river, and the script originally contained some more scenes of Godzilla sparring with the military at the Golden Gate Bridge (specifically a strike by F-35s targeting Godzilla's gills, drawing him onto Alcatraz Island).

In KoTM they set up a big set piece naval battle with Ghidorah and Rodan in the flooded-out ruins of DC - somewhat silly but still pretty cool looking - but we cut away and are treated only to the aftermath as remaining forces withdraw and burnt-out hulls sink beneath the waves. At least the novel shows King Ghidorah sinking a destroyer before it ends.

I wish they were still available, but there were some early storyboards for G2014 depicting Godzilla and the male MUTO battling amidst a carrier battle group, with Godzilla just about tipping over a carrier trying to get to the MUTO. Seems they might be reusing that to an extent in GvK, but it doesn't look nearly as impressive so far (though granted we've only seen about three blurry seconds)
gerdzerl wrote:DONT STOP G2000 YOU SEXY BEAST

User avatar
Living Corpse
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 11635
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:49 pm

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Living Corpse » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:14 am

There's also a serious lack of onscreen destruction. At least Kong and Rodan gave us some.

Also as much as I like KOTM I am pissed most of Rodan and Mothra's fight is offscreen or both being entangled in a ball of destruction like Bayformers. After how well the fight between Rodan and the fighter jets was done, there is no excuse for why his fight with Mothra wasn't at least equal to or better than Gamera and Iris' air fight in Gamera 3. You're getting your ass beat by a 20 year old Japanese film made with less money and older tech, come on Hollywood!
Last edited by Living Corpse on Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Image

Online
User avatar
HedorahIsBestGirl
JXSDF Technician
Posts: 849
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:17 am

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby HedorahIsBestGirl » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:16 am

Living Corpse wrote:There's also a serious lack of onscreen destruction. At least Kong and Rodan gave us some.

Also as much as I love KOTM I am pissed most of Rodan and Mothra's fight is offscreen or both being entangled in a ball of destruction like Bayformers. After how well the fight between Rodan and the fighter jets was done, there is no excuse for why his fight with Mothra wasn't at least equal to Gamera and Iris' air fight in Gamera 3. You're getting your ass beat by a 20 year old Japanese film made with less money and older tech, come on Hollywood!

I agree about the Rodan vs. Mothra fight, although the ending of the fight with Mothra bringing her stinger into play was pretty awesome. That somewhat redeemed it for me.
The sea has cobalt, it's full of mercury. Too many fumes in our oxygen!
All the smog now is choking you and me. Good Lord, where is it gonna end?
Got to get it back, someday. Got to get it back, and soon now.
For tomorrow maybe you and me...
We're movin', we're movin', movin' to the Moon now!
It's up to us to make a choice.
We know what it's worth to save the Earth!

User avatar
Dv-218
G-Force Lieutenant
Posts: 2567
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:18 am

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Dv-218 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:10 am

Yeah, agreed. Kinda bummed out on the beginning but the climax of the fight was worth it. Rodan's sheer menacing presence and the buildup to Mothra's "finisher" were top notch.
Also loved the eagle-like attacks and movements Rodan showed during the fight. His birdlike mannerisms were honestly a great way to establish he isn't just a random Pterosaur and are why he's my 2nd favorite incarnation (on par with Showa of course. Nothing will ever beat 1956's Draculadactyl :lol:)
Last edited by Dv-218 on Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Living Corpse
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 11635
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:49 pm

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Living Corpse » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:21 pm

Like I don't wanna say it was all crap, the stinger bit was cool but it could have been so, so much better espiecally since technology has improved a lot over the past 20 years. Iris and Gamera's air fight has CGI that hasn't aged well (looks like PS2 graphics) but you can't say the action is bad.

I like the Monsterverse but I am frustrated it is filled with so many missed opportunities to make it a truly great film experience for both kaiju fans and general audiences.
Last edited by Living Corpse on Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

User avatar
Terasawa
EDF Soldier
Posts: 3426
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:06 am

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Terasawa » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:39 pm

^ I think the only really bad CGI in the Gamera trilogy is the shot of Gamera being covered by Soldier Legions in G2. They were a bit too ambitious with that shot.
Save All Dubs
奴はもう一度我々のために戦ってくれる。

Resized Image

Tyrant_Lizard_King
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 10155
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:57 am
Location: The Planet Trade HQ
Contact:

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Tyrant_Lizard_King » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:16 pm

Even Pacific Rim, which I love, is all about the fights. Though it was a very concious decision by Del Toro to not focus on those things.
Rocker, paleo buff, cryptid enthusiast, Dragonball fanatic, and lover of comic book, video game, manga, & anime babes!
Follow me on Twitter, if you dare! https://twitter.com/TLK_1983
Image
Image

User avatar
Jetty_Jags
Interpol Agent
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:27 am

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Jetty_Jags » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:18 pm

Really I didn't know that. The one thing that I do love about Pacific rim, is the world building. While not groundbreaking, ideas like the kaiju black-market are pretty interesting (I'm pretty sure this has never been done before but I can't tell).
He Jock it Made of Steel

User avatar
Living Corpse
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 11635
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:49 pm

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Living Corpse » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:39 pm

Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote:Even Pacific Rim, which I love, is all about the fights. Though it was a very concious decision by Del Toro to not focus on those things.


I'm glad they had one fight in Hong Kong. We may not have gotten much in the military fight but damn the city being wrecked was fun, cool visuals too with the neon lights.

Jetty_Jags wrote:Really I didn't know that. The one thing that I do love about Pacific rim, is the world building. While not groundbreaking, ideas like the kaiju black-market are pretty interesting (I'm pretty sure this has never been done before but I can't tell).


Closest thing I can think of is Bio-Major hiring mercenaries to steel Godzilla cells and all the other corporate espionage in Godzilla vs Biollante. The idea a secret war breaks out between what is the equivalent of everyday companies like CVS and Walgreens is so ridiculous that is awesome.
Image

User avatar
UltramanGoji
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 15331
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:40 am
Location: Western New York
Contact:

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby UltramanGoji » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:03 pm

Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote:Even Pacific Rim, which I love, is all about the fights.


It really isn't. Pacific Rim is about humanity more than anything. Most of the movie's runtime is dedicated to building the relationship between Mako, Stacker, and Raleigh and the trials and tribulations of a world coming together despite their geographical differences to save the planet.
Last edited by UltramanGoji on Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

User avatar
G2000
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 5212
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:34 pm

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby G2000 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:48 pm

UltramanGoji wrote:
Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote:Even Pacific Rim, which I love, is all about the fights.


It really isn't. Pacific Rim is about humanity more than anything. Most of the movie's runtime is dedicated to building the relationship between Mako, Stacker, and Raleigh and the trials and tribulations of a world coming together despite their geographical differences to save the planet.


I think he means in terms of the kaiju action it’s primarily focused on fights as opposed to city destruction or monster vs military scenes. And it’s true that Del Toro tried to avoid things like that - while Hong Kong gets thrashed pretty good del Toro intentionally makes it clear that the buildings are abandoned to make the destruction “guiltless,” and he’s ideologically fairly anti-military in general hence why the only monster vs military scenes are brief flashbacks at the very beginning and he intentionally portrayed the PPDC as a fairly non-militarized organization (Stacker is seen in a uniform exactly once and wears a civilian suit for the majority of the film, use of titles like “Ranger” as opposed to real military ranks, etc.)
gerdzerl wrote:DONT STOP G2000 YOU SEXY BEAST

Online
User avatar
HedorahIsBestGirl
JXSDF Technician
Posts: 849
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:17 am

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby HedorahIsBestGirl » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:51 pm

Let's be serious, Pacific Rim is way, way better than all three MonsterVerse films. Better characters, better action, better world-building. It's a damn shame the sequel was such a letdown. That said, I really don't want a Pacific Rim/MonsterVerse crossover like some others do. I'm still not entirely onboard with Legendary's Godzilla and Kong sharing a universe, I don't think we need to mix in another franchise with its own separate mythology.
Last edited by HedorahIsBestGirl on Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The sea has cobalt, it's full of mercury. Too many fumes in our oxygen!
All the smog now is choking you and me. Good Lord, where is it gonna end?
Got to get it back, someday. Got to get it back, and soon now.
For tomorrow maybe you and me...
We're movin', we're movin', movin' to the Moon now!
It's up to us to make a choice.
We know what it's worth to save the Earth!

User avatar
G2000
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 5212
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:34 pm

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby G2000 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:15 pm

HedorahIsBestGirl wrote:Let's be serious, Pacific Rim is way, way better than all three MonsterVerse films. Better characters, better action, better world-building. It's a damn shame the sequel was such a letdown.


I agree wholeheartedly, Pacific Rim is the best American film of the Kaiju Renaissance and the best US kaiju film in general

That said, I really don't want a Pacific Rim/MonsterVerse crossover like some others do. I'm still not entirely onboard with Legendary's Godzilla and Kong sharing a universe, I don't think we need to mix in another franchise with its own separate mythology.


Oh, I don’t know, I think it could work as a comic series like those old Dark Horse crossovers or an animated spinoff. Have a whole idea about how it might work. A full-on film or series might be a hard sell.
gerdzerl wrote:DONT STOP G2000 YOU SEXY BEAST

User avatar
UltramanGoji
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 15331
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:40 am
Location: Western New York
Contact:

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby UltramanGoji » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:29 pm

G2000 wrote:
UltramanGoji wrote:
Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote:Even Pacific Rim, which I love, is all about the fights.


It really isn't. Pacific Rim is about humanity more than anything. Most of the movie's runtime is dedicated to building the relationship between Mako, Stacker, and Raleigh and the trials and tribulations of a world coming together despite their geographical differences to save the planet.


I think he means in terms of the kaiju action it’s primarily focused on fights as opposed to city destruction or monster vs military scenes. And it’s true that Del Toro tried to avoid things like that - while Hong Kong gets thrashed pretty good del Toro intentionally makes it clear that the buildings are abandoned to make the destruction “guiltless,” and he’s ideologically fairly anti-military in general hence why the only monster vs military scenes are brief flashbacks at the very beginning and he intentionally portrayed the PPDC as a fairly non-militarized organization (Stacker is seen in a uniform exactly once and wears a civilian suit for the majority of the film, use of titles like “Ranger” as opposed to real military ranks, etc.)


Ah, now I see. Yeah, that makes sense. I really think PR's fights are the best monster-vs-monster action we've gotten from the Kaiju Renaissance. Visually dynamic and easy to follow, even with visual noise like rain and neon lights.

G2000 wrote:
HedorahIsBestGirl wrote:Let's be serious, Pacific Rim is way, way better than all three MonsterVerse films. Better characters, better action, better world-building. It's a damn shame the sequel was such a letdown.


I agree wholeheartedly, Pacific Rim is the best American film of the Kaiju Renaissance and the best US kaiju film in general


Add me onto that list as well.
Image

User avatar
SoggyNoodles2016
EDF Soldier
Posts: 3586
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 7:37 am
Location: My parents' basement

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby SoggyNoodles2016 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:49 pm

I disagree.

Not about Pacfic Rim being better then the Monsterverse, that is true (though I love the monster characters, rare humans stand outs, and ambitions of the Monsterverse), but Pacific Rim being the best American kaiju film.

Call me a nostalgia blind idiot or what not, but I still think Cloverfield is a straight up masterpiece and the best of the American kaiju genre.

Do agree with everything said about Pacific Rim though.
Last edited by SoggyNoodles2016 on Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

NSZ wrote:That's the 70's for ya. If you weren't blowing your money on gas, drugs, or chicks, you were blowing it on giant animatronic monkeys that don't work.


fanofstuff wrote:You mean to tell me that you don't see two crabs and think "Yeah, combined they can take on God"?

Online
User avatar
HedorahIsBestGirl
JXSDF Technician
Posts: 849
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:17 am

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby HedorahIsBestGirl » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:26 pm

I need to rewatch Cloverfield one of these days. I remember it being very disappointing, but I was only thirteen when I saw it and I think it got overhyped because of that crazy marketing campaign. Maybe I'd appreciate it more as an adult, without the hype. Found footage is a style of film that I've become more interested in during the past few years, so I'd probably like it better now on that ground alone.
The sea has cobalt, it's full of mercury. Too many fumes in our oxygen!
All the smog now is choking you and me. Good Lord, where is it gonna end?
Got to get it back, someday. Got to get it back, and soon now.
For tomorrow maybe you and me...
We're movin', we're movin', movin' to the Moon now!
It's up to us to make a choice.
We know what it's worth to save the Earth!


Return to “General Toho Films”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests