Favorite Godzilla Era

For discussions covering more than one Toho film or show that span across more than one “era.”
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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby MDK » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:49 am

tymon wrote:What is with this "Heisei has superior effects" thing that's been spreading like wildfire lately? If you view special effects with historical context (I know, kids, "con-what?") it's pretty easy to see that any of the 60's films absolutely slaughter the 90's poop, in both innovation and execution. Unless, of course, you're in love with SPARKS, lazy miniatures, immobile suits, soundstagey-soundstages that lack any sense of immersion or atmosphere, Bandai crabs and downright terrible composite shots. :lol:


I'd certainly take that over deformed hand puppets, extensive stock footage, spray atomic breath, extremely visible wires, or cheesy fights. :P
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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby LiquidG » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:17 am

The Special Effects of the Heisei era are a mixed bag. The first three films have pretty good special effects, Biollante in particular I believe had the best effects in the entire era and some of the best in the whole series, Ghidorah's was good too with a few duds ( namely M11 and certain scenes of Ghidorah flying ) it wasn't until Mothra that the effects started to get lazy. Still as a whole I feel the Showa series did more in terms of effects than the Heisei series did, it was only around the 70s that effects in my opinion took a turn for the worst, like I've said before, as a whole I think the Showa series wins in the effects category because it simply did more with its effects.
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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby eabaker » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:19 am

If nothing else, the effects sequences in the Showa flicks had far, far more interesting shot compositions and much better editing than much of anything in the Heisei series.
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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby mechabrent » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:20 am

Showa did more because it lasted longer. I think the effects of the Heisei looked better in at least part because the suits did not look awful. Showa Rodan looked brain dead, Minya looked like a really poor playdoh Godzilla, and some of the godzilla suits Son of Godzilla in particular looked HORRID.
Heisei suits looked almost tidentical movie to movie and all the creatures were a marked improvement over their Showa counterparts IMO.
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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby eabaker » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:27 am

Sorry for the ambiguity, the "more" in my post wasn't about the number of interesting shot compositions, it was about the degree to which the shot compositions were interesting. As in, pull a typical frame from an effects scene from the Showa era and a typical frame from an effects scene in the Heisei era, and the Showa frame will be more pleasingly composed.
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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby LiquidG » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:29 am

mechabrent wrote:Showa did more because it lasted longer. I think the effects of the Heisei looked better in at least part because the suits did not look awful. Showa Rodan looked brain dead, Minya looked like a really poor playdoh Godzilla, and some of the godzilla suits Son of Godzilla in particular looked HORRID.
Heisei suits looked almost tidentical movie to movie and all the creatures were a marked improvement over their Showa counterparts IMO.

I love the ideas behind some of the revamps, its execution that falls flat in my opinion, I actually really like both Mothra and Rodans designs, but my god they didn't live up to those concepts off paper and on screen. Both of them were as stiff as cardboard when they flew, which is really a shame because I feel the designs themselves were great, also I know this is just personal opinion but I like Rodan being Godzilla's equal.
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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby Legion1979 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:22 pm

mechabrent wrote:
Heisei suits looked almost tidentical movie to movie and all the creatures were a marked improvement over their Showa counterparts IMO.


Not by a f@cking long shot, but okay...

I think the ONLY Showa-era monster that truly looked great in the Heisei series was Godzilla film. The '93 Rodan is NOTHING compared to the original 1956 version in terms of both design and execution. The way that little Rodan prop was manipulated was truly pathetic compared to what Toho was able to do almost 40 years earlier. And the original '64 Tsuburaya Mothra was absolutely incredible and moved with so much life and energy. The '92 version glided around like a Macy's parade balloon, could barely move and looked like a silly plush toy. Minya was goofy looking, but that idiotic, bright green anime...thing from Space Godzilla doesn't fit the Heisei universe at all. Kawakita's King Ghidorah (IMHO) was very derivative of the original. But even if it did have a more unique design, damn it's execution and manipulation is so lifeless compared the Tsuburaya original from '64/'65. Look at the jet attack scene from Godzilla vs King Ghidorah and how unbelievably stiff Ghidorah was. You don't see anything like that in the '60s.

Personally, I think going on about deformed puppets, stock footage and nonsense like that are just a bunch of unbelievably ignorant low blows just meant to know the Showa series down a peg. I remember when I was a teenager. The Heisei series was brand new and HOLY poop did they seem amazing. Unbelievable effects. Wow, look at those animated rays! Wow, look at the sparks! Wow, everything is so shiny and new! And you know what, I felt that way for years. Then slowly but surely, as I got older I started refining my tastes and noticed - HOLY poop - some of these effects aren't that great after all, and a lot of it WAS done better decades earlier!

Do the Showa movies have some stock footage and some weird puppets? Yeah. But the imagination, sincerity, creativity and the basic execution of most of this stuff (especially from 1954-1968) blows away Kawakita's drunken "going through the motions" effects in the '90s.

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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby Rody » Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:05 pm

The 90's films did have some good effects. The Tokyo set in King Ghidorah is impressive, as is the volcano emergence sequence from BFE. Baby Godzilla has some nice animatronics, and the shot of Godzilla approaching Bass Island in Spacegodzilla is excellent.
The problem is, for every good effect in these movies, there are half a dozen others that are quite poor. The flying monsters travel so slowly and move so little that it's hard to accept them as living creatures - and why are the buildings exploding when the monsters are moving so slowly (and not even shooting beams)?? All of the suits from these films are so stiff that it's hard to get any convincing motion out of them, which makes the battle scenes particularly awkward. Kawakita got sneakier with the last two films, using shaky close-up shots to make the monsters look like they were in the middle of an intense fight, but it just isn't as satisfying as actually seeing the monsters grab each other & bite each other & throw each other around. Let's not forget those exploding buildings, either. Everything - and I mean EVERYTHING - blows up in a shower of sparks. Not rubble, not smoke and flame, just sparks. That doesn't look good at all.

The showa films, particularly the 50's & 60's films, are the opposite. Yes, some of the effects haven't aged well, like the puppets from GRA & GTTHM, or the embarrassingly deteriorating suits in Gigan, or the jet fight sequence from Rodan; but for every bad effect, I could probably list half a dozen others that looked amazing.
In Rodan, you see tiles shredded off rooftops and bridges & buildings bend and tear themselves apart under Rodan's shock wave winds. And how about that jeep scene!
In Mothra, you have the ENORMOUS larva suit and the ENORMOUS sets it crashes through. Look at all those teeny tiny details!
In Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster, you see buildings collapse into thousands of pieces of rubble after getting struck by Ghidorah's gravity bolts.
In Godzilla vs. Gigan, you have the impressive fiery destruction of the oil rig.
Do I even need to mention Mechagodzilla's pyrotechnic display?

The Showa films' effects generally show a far greater level of detail & care than the 90's effects, and that makes them far more effective and entertaining for many of us.

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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby Gamera vs Rodan » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:07 pm

Honestly when I started watching Showa after first seeing Heisei and Millennium I found myself laughing in a bad way at many of the "special" effects. I had to keep reminding myself when the films were made and adding that onto my love for the other eras made me accept most of it for what it was. If people really think the effects were better during Showa I think they need to send me some of what they're smoking........

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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby Gamera vs Rodan » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:18 pm

Gawdziller wrote:I've broken up enough fights in this section to know what's going to set something off by now, and the above post is a ticking time bomb.

Before anyone responds, I say STOP, think, and keep it civil.

And GvR, I'm going to say phrases like "send me some of what they're smoking" are fairly blatant flamebait. If you want your opinion to be better respected, you might want to tone that down. A lot.


Legion is doing his "not by a skreeonking long shot" so I just feel this should be a level playing field. It's a two-way street, they need to earn my respect to and having a mod on their side because they can't control themselves doesn't help them.

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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby godzilla98rules » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:36 pm

Rody wrote:or the jet fight sequence from Rodan;


I'm not at all trying to start something, I'm just curious. What exactly is wrong with the jet scene in your eyes?

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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby tymon » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:48 pm

MeltdownKoopa wrote:
tymon wrote:What is with this "Heisei has superior effects" thing that's been spreading like wildfire lately? If you view special effects with historical context (I know, kids, "con-what?") it's pretty easy to see that any of the 60's films absolutely slaughter the 90's poop, in both innovation and execution. Unless, of course, you're in love with SPARKS, lazy miniatures, immobile suits, soundstagey-soundstages that lack any sense of immersion or atmosphere, Bandai crabs and downright terrible composite shots. :lol:


I'd certainly take that over deformed hand puppets, extensive stock footage, spray atomic breath, extremely visible wires, or cheesy fights. :P

You must have missed the " historical context" part, which was the entire point of my post. :dizzy:
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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby Destoroyah of Worlds » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:50 pm

Gamera vs Rodan wrote:If people really think the effects were better during Showa I think they need to send me some of what they're smoking........

Well, a lot of the miniatures they used in showa were better... Not a big fan of some of that CGI in later films..
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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby MDK » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:09 pm

tymon wrote:
MeltdownKoopa wrote:
tymon wrote:What is with this "Heisei has superior effects" thing that's been spreading like wildfire lately? If you view special effects with historical context (I know, kids, "con-what?") it's pretty easy to see that any of the 60's films absolutely slaughter the 90's poop, in both innovation and execution. Unless, of course, you're in love with SPARKS, lazy miniatures, immobile suits, soundstagey-soundstages that lack any sense of immersion or atmosphere, Bandai crabs and downright terrible composite shots. :lol:


I'd certainly take that over deformed hand puppets, extensive stock footage, spray atomic breath, extremely visible wires, or cheesy fights. :P

You must have missed the " historical context" part, which was the entire point of my post. :dizzy:


I wasn't being serious. I use this :P as my silly face =.
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Legion1979 wrote:The Godzilla fandom tends to attract three types of people; ignorant kids, social deviants and drunks in their late '20s and older. Lol

SaltPersonified wrote:Says the one who threw a temper tantrum over Vega

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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby mecagodzillax » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:38 am

Legion1979 wrote:
mechabrent wrote:
Heisei suits looked almost tidentical movie to movie and all the creatures were a marked improvement over their Showa counterparts IMO.


Not by a f@cking long shot, but okay...

I think the ONLY Showa-era monster that truly looked great in the Heisei series was Godzilla film. The '93 Rodan is NOTHING compared to the original 1956 version in terms of both design and execution. The way that little Rodan prop was manipulated was truly pathetic compared to what Toho was able to do almost 40 years earlier. And the original '64 Tsuburaya Mothra was absolutely incredible and moved with so much life and energy. The '92 version glided around like a Macy's parade balloon, could barely move and looked like a silly plush toy. Minya was goofy looking, but that idiotic, bright green anime...thing from Space Godzilla doesn't fit the Heisei universe at all. Kawakita's King Ghidorah (IMHO) was very derivative of the original. But even if it did have a more unique design, damn it's execution and manipulation is so lifeless compared the Tsuburaya original from '64/'65. Look at the jet attack scene from Godzilla vs King Ghidorah and how unbelievably stiff Ghidorah was. You don't see anything like that in the '60s.

Personally, I think going on about deformed puppets, stock footage and nonsense like that are just a bunch of unbelievably ignorant low blows just meant to know the Showa series down a peg. I remember when I was a teenager. The Heisei series was brand new and HOLY poop did they seem amazing. Unbelievable effects. Wow, look at those animated rays! Wow, look at the sparks! Wow, everything is so shiny and new! And you know what, I felt that way for years. Then slowly but surely, as I got older I started refining my tastes and noticed - HOLY poop - some of these effects aren't that great after all, and a lot of it WAS done better decades earlier!

Do the Showa movies have some stock footage and some weird puppets? Yeah. But the imagination, sincerity, creativity and the basic execution of most of this stuff (especially from 1954-1968) blows away Kawakita's drunken "going through the motions" effects in the '90s.

this post made my blood presser go up

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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby MDK » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:43 am

mecagodzillax wrote:this post made my blood presser go up


W-what?
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Legion1979 wrote:The Godzilla fandom tends to attract three types of people; ignorant kids, social deviants and drunks in their late '20s and older. Lol

SaltPersonified wrote:Says the one who threw a temper tantrum over Vega

If you're forced ignored with me and you see this because you logged out to read my posts you need a life lol

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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby Legion1979 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:47 am

mecagodzillax wrote:this post made my blood presser go up


I'm assuming you mean blood PRESSURE but...why?

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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby Rody » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:16 am

godzilla98rules wrote:
Rody wrote:or the jet fight sequence from Rodan;


I'm not at all trying to start something, I'm just curious. What exactly is wrong with the jet scene in your eyes?

I don't think it conveys the sense of speed that it needs to, and the Rodan puppet looks a little shaky sometimes.
It's not one of the most blatantly bad effects from the era, but having recently watched Rodan it was fresh on my mind.

On the other hand, I forgot to mention the excellently rendered shadow that passes over the newlywed couple before Rodan eats them - another prime example of an effect from 50 years ago that shamefully blows away similar effects from only 20 years ago.

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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby eabaker » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:26 am

Rody wrote:On the other hand, I forgot to mention the excellently rendered shadow that passes over the newlywed couple before Rodan eats them - another prime example of an effect from 50 years ago that shamefully blows away similar effects from only 20 years ago.


Plus a fantastic sequence overall, really highlighting how well kaiju flicks can work as horror.
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Re: Favorite Godzilla Era

Postby godzilla98rules » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:03 pm

Rody wrote:
I'm not at all trying to start something, I'm just curious. What exactly is wrong with the jet scene in your eyes?

I don't think it conveys the sense of speed that it needs to, and the Rodan puppet looks a little shaky sometimes.
It's not one of the most blatantly bad effects from the era, but having recently watched Rodan it was fresh on my mind.
[/quote]

I guess I'll need to watch the movie again. My memory of the film is fuzzy.
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