https://issuu.com/mipmarkets/docs/mipcom_2019_news_1

Could be a mistake by a press release writer, but it also squares with Toho's relentless maltreatment of the US dubs. They now deny the existence of most Godzilla dubs, I guess.
Thread title is incredibly clickbaity, misleading and inflammatory.Tamura wrote:I know the reader on this site sucks, but see the press release on page 57:
https://issuu.com/mipmarkets/docs/mipcom_2019_news_1
Could be a mistake by a press release writer, but it also squares with Toho's relentless maltreatment of the US dubs.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.
Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.
gerdzerl wrote:DONT STOP G2000 YOU SEXY BEAST
Alright but it still misses the point.Tamura wrote:I made the title less clickbaity.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.
Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.
This.G2000 wrote:"Toho Snubs Dubs"
But that's not accurate. That suggest they're snubbing English-dubbing altogether. In reality, they're keeping older U.S.-produced dubbed versions from seeing release. They're still allowing the use of the dubbed versions they commissioned themselves, which represents the majority of all English dubs of these films._JNavs_ wrote:This.G2000 wrote:"Toho Snubs Dubs"
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.
Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.
While I agree with you in theory, think of Toho’s perspective on this. Godzilla is Toho’s baby. It’s not AIP or anyone else’s. The heritage belongs to them.Tamura wrote:For a start, they could at least dignify the classic foreign versions with an acknowledgement that they exist. It's hard to reach a goal like preserving them while pretending that they don't exist. A simple acknowledgment of existence is the absolute smallest measure of dignity that you could possibly bestow on any media. To cross the line between acknowledgement and denial means either the destruction or preservation of heritage... Toho has decided to doggedly stand like an ugly statue on the side of bald-faced denial.
While I like AIP, and I like a lot of efforts put into these projects, it also makes sense why Toho, as a businesses decision, would not want to associate with them. Much of AIPs output was complete schlock and it’s partially why Godzilla first had a bad/schlocky reputation in America. You can argue that in the long term that paid off as it gave Godzilla an audience to begin with, but again, it would make sense why Toho, a Japanese company, would not want their stuff associated with them.A quiet utterance of the words "AIP released Destroy All Monsters in the US in 1969"... this is cultural preservation at its most basic level. Sure, this is basic, obvious information that you can easily find on Wikipedia... you could say we all preserve the memory of the dubs by talking about them and by restoring them ourselves.
Independently of this issue, there are real concerns and things to be critical over Toho for. But again, it seems in this case, Toho thinks there might be more to gain by standardizing dubs moving forward. We’ll have to wait and see.But for those words to emerge from the corporation that can do more to preserve the dubs than any singular fan would be a monumental change. It would give me hope that eventually Toho may see a profit motive in seeking out the best elements of the worldwide versions, respectfully preserving them, and enabling access to these preserved versions in their countries of origin. In the course of seeking elements, it is very likely they could even find materials that could, in turn, help restore the Japanese versions in dire need of proper preservation. The goal of preserving foreign versions pays dividends.
I agree, but I don’t think it’s an intentional effort to erase or bury it. The whole meeting and business expo is about the future. But to counter your point, Toho seems to have pride in exactly what you’re saying. The whole point of this endeavor is to allow more access to Godzilla.The worldwide dubs of the classic Godzilla films form a massive, interconnected ecosystem. Each film is a case study of the fascinating course a film can take as it disseminates throughout the world. It is undeniable that the worldwide dissemination and feedback of the Godzilla films is an important aspect of the franchise's history. To bury that history is ghoulish.
I think your points towards the end, are valid, but Godzilla, historically, has more value and significance to Japan than a lot of other media. Godzilla is a Japanese cultural icon, and historically important to japan. It’s a symbol for the horrors of nuclear war, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and is an innately Japanese property. I’m all for different ways to experience the films, and the evolution of Godzilla, but at the same time I just don’t see or feel the that Godzilla’s original origins should be watered down or altered. I’m of course an American Godzilla fan, but I’m not going to deny that I really had no understanding for Godzilla as a nuclear symbol, until I saw the Japanese cut of Gojira.Godzilla '54 wasn't just a Japanese film created in 1954... it was a film seen throughout the world in many dramatically different flavors over the course of 23 years. Media discourse always relates films as rigid, lucid texts belonging to their arbitrarily chosen creators... why can't they also be related as memories belonging to their spectators? One could say G'54 is a film of Ishiro Honda, Eiji Tsuburaya, Toho, whomever... you could also say a specific version of G'54 is an experience of mine.
Definitely, I mean most of the early films had Kong and Frankenstein in them. Films don’t exist in a bubble. But again I don’t think Toho is denying this.The franchise has always been international. Ignoring the legacy of the foreign versions would be like ignoring the original production of the films themselves. The films, and their foreign versions, weren't created in a vacuum. Cultural interaction was constantly occurring. I don't see Toho's classic monster films as pure, local productions. The world was observing Toho's early foray into monster movies just as much as Toho was observing the world's response to their own films. In response to foreign countries dubbing and putting American actors in their films, by 1959 Toho started dubbing their own films and placing Americans or American-passing actors in important roles.
Again, I just don’t think this response is really warranted. We have dozens of books reviewing and researching this.Feel however you want about any dubs. I don't claim to enjoy all of them. But their preservation is dire, and Toho is just accelerating their demise. This is an irresponsible abomination and they should be ashamed. And it's not about what would make me happy, it's about what needs to be done. This is history.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.
Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.
Great post! As much as I don't care, now, as a spectator, for the dubbed versions of these movies (life is short, japanese originals only for me), they ARE a huge part of the history of the franchise: 100% japanese in 54 (although from US inspiration), exported in '56, cut in half in '62 (to each its life), integrating the international aspect in the movies themselves from them on...Tamura wrote:For a start, they could at least dignify the classic foreign versions with an acknowledgement that they exist. It's hard to reach a goal like preserving them while pretending that they don't exist. A simple acknowledgment of existence is the absolute smallest measure of dignity that you could possibly bestow on any media. To cross the line between acknowledgement and denial means either the destruction or preservation of heritage... Toho has decided to doggedly stand like an ugly statue on the side of bald-faced denial.
A quiet utterance of the words "AIP released Destroy All Monsters in the US in 1969"... this is cultural preservation at its most basic level. Sure, this is basic, obvious information that you can easily find on Wikipedia... you could say we all preserve the memory of the dubs by talking about them and by restoring them ourselves.
But for those words to emerge from the corporation that can do more to preserve the dubs than any singular fan would be a monumental change. It would give me hope that eventually Toho may see a profit motive in seeking out the best elements of the worldwide versions, respectfully preserving them, and enabling access to these preserved versions in their countries of origin. In the course of seeking elements, it is very likely they could even find materials that could, in turn, help restore the Japanese versions in dire need of proper preservation. The goal of preserving foreign versions pays dividends.
The worldwide dubs of the classic Godzilla films form a massive, interconnected ecosystem. Each film is a case study of the fascinating course a film can take as it disseminates throughout the world. It is undeniable that the worldwide dissemination and feedback of the Godzilla films is an important aspect of the franchise's history. To bury that history is ghoulish.
Godzilla '54 wasn't just a Japanese film created in 1954... it was a film seen throughout the world in many dramatically different flavors over the course of 23 years. Media discourse always relates films as rigid, lucid texts belonging to their arbitrarily chosen creators... why can't they also be related as memories belonging to their spectators? One could say G'54 is a film of Ishiro Honda, Eiji Tsuburaya, Toho, whomever... you could also say a specific version of G'54 is an experience of mine.
Why can't the release of films be understood and described the way plays are released? As performative works that exist within a time range and adapt to local circumstances? A film has a fixed date and location that it premiered, but it also runs for a number of performances and is premiered or adapted in other regions, just like a play. Godzilla '54 is akin to a very long-running play adapted many times. When a play is adapted a million times, that is seen as a sign of success. But when a film gets adapted for another country, it seems like each adaptation is scrutinized and considered a bastardization unless proven otherwise.
The franchise has always been international. Ignoring the legacy of the foreign versions would be like ignoring the original production of the films themselves. The films, and their foreign versions, weren't created in a vacuum. Cultural interaction was constantly occurring. I don't see Toho's classic monster films as pure, local productions. The world was observing Toho's early foray into monster movies just as much as Toho was observing the world's response to their own films. In response to foreign countries dubbing and putting American actors in their films, by 1959 Toho started dubbing their own films and placing Americans or American-passing actors in important roles.
Feel however you want about any dubs. I don't claim to enjoy all of them. But their preservation is dire, and Toho is just accelerating their demise. This is an irresponsible abomination and they should be ashamed. And it's not about what would make me happy, it's about what needs to be done. This is history.
Your mind went there not mine.G2000 wrote:"Calculated erasure" sounds like a synonym for genocide"
three wrote:leave me be maxrebo! damn you and your ability to play the game here....