Kaiju pet peeves

For discussions covering more than one Toho film or show that span across more than one “era.”
User avatar
Mr_Goji_and_Watch
G-Force Lieutenant
Posts: 2711
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:34 pm
Location: キノプレックス
Contact:

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby Mr_Goji_and_Watch » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:10 pm

Why do boomers get assblasted so easily around here....

The only pet peeve I have are the wires. I get that nothing could be done about them and they're pretty rare but once I notice them I always do from that point on.
Last edited by Mr_Goji_and_Watch on Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Moogabunga wrote:Ive said it before and I'll gladly say it again, this is going to be the best Godzilla film ever and more importantly, its going to be the film that truly makes Godzilla mainstream (and cool)

SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:I'm glad to be a fake fan.

User avatar
MechaGoji Bro7503
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 5433
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:02 pm
Location: Black Hole Planet 3
Contact:

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:48 am

Grievous wrote:
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:I absolutely LOATHE it whenever Godzilla runs. It's so STUPID and instantly makes any film a B movie. It's HORRIBLE and almost adds some fun to my serious movies, which is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

So...Godzilla should never run...ever?

Why not?

Most living creatures have that ability.

I was joking.
"Bang on, mate.", - Murdoc Niccals 2018.

Dv-218 wrote:This is so sad, Alexa play "Bio-Wars".

Dr. Professor wrote:If I had a dollar for every "SAVE MOTHRA" joke, I'd be able to buy Legendary Pictures, renew the license for Godzilla, acquire the rights to the rest of the Toho monsters, and make a Godzilla film that totally bombs without even putting a dent in my bank account.

"Wake the fruck up Godzilla, we got a city to burn." - Goro Maki, 2016.

User avatar
Grievous
Terminated
Terminated
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby Grievous » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:51 am

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:I was joking.

Oh...

Ha...Ha...

:?
Image
The A.D.F Needs You! Join The Anguirus Defense Force via Private Message Today!

GojiDog
JXSDF Technician
Posts: 790
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby GojiDog » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:51 am

My biggest kaiju pet peeve is and always has been use of stock footage. Certain other things I am willing to let slide due to the restrictions of the special effects.

- Godzilla looking different from land and water shots? Not ideal, but I let it slide considering the method of doing things back then.
- Four legged monsters walking on their knees? Again, not great, but as long as the personality of the monster comes through (like with Anguirus), I let it slide.
- Wires coming into view? Again, not ideal, but I also understand it as a side effect of the special effects they were using. The Harryhausen stop motion characters are outstanding, but that came with its own set of issues (weak optical effects to put them in the shot for example) but we kind of overlook that too. If I can overlook that type of stuff, I can forgive a few wires too.

Use of stock footage though? That always irked me. It always felt like a lazy short cut to pad out action sequences and the movie by giving us stuff we've already seen. For flashback sequences or opening credit sequences, its okay (except in cases like Gamera Vs. Viras where the sequence went like 10 minutes). But just cutting it into the middle of an action sequence just reeks of cutting corners. And them poorly trying to create the effect that the day time footage is now nighttime footage in Godzilla Vs Gigan was the most egregious offense I can think of.

The worst special effects that these films had to offer are forgiven by me for this reason: They still made them. They worked hard to create the image to tell the story and whether it worked or not, the effort still shines through. One of the reasons I forgive the wires in the Fukuoka attack in the original Rodan is that the sequence is shot and edited so well and the monsters look so great that I am more than willing to appreciate all the hard work that went into making it and not let a few wires get in the way of that.

But there is something about the use of stock footage that just screams lazy to me. And sometimes it get so bad (Godzilla's Revenge, Godzilla Vs. Megalon, and Supermonster Gamera) that it almost makes the movie's own existence feel pointless.

User avatar
eabaker
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 11260
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby eabaker » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:56 am

GojiDog wrote:Use of stock footage though? That always irked me. It always felt like a lazy short cut to pad out action sequences and the movie by giving us stuff we've already seen.


I don't understand why people on this board always attribute this to laziness. This is not the result of the effects artists not feeling like putting the work in - these were passionate craftsmen and storytellers who loved creating these dramatic and dynamic images, and the last thing they wanted was to awkwardly recycle existing material - but of the studio executives wanting to reduce spfx budgets while maximizing spfx screentime. Cheapness is the motive here.
Last edited by eabaker on Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
Terasawa
G-Force Lieutenant
Posts: 2116
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:06 am

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby Terasawa » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:20 pm

GojiDog wrote:(except in cases like Gamera Vs. Viras where the sequence went like 10 minutes).


Gonna nitpick here for a second but in the original theatrical release that montage was less than two minutes long. Daiei extended that sequence to 20 minutes for their exported version of the film (the basis of most if not all foreign versions of the movie). Kadokawa either no longer has the original negative or it was edited to create the longer export version so current video versions are a hybrid wherein the montage is only about 10 minutes. But my point is that originally that montage was short enough that no one would be complaining about it now.

And them poorly trying to create the effect that the day time footage is now nighttime footage in Godzilla Vs Gigan was the most egregious offense I can think of.


They could have painted a new backdrop for new footage to put the action during daytime and to better match the earlier films but that would have been another expense. The end result is sloppy but they took the only cost-effective measure available to them.

eabaker wrote:I don't understand why people on this board always attribute this to laziness. This is not the result of the effects artists not feeling like putting the work in - these were passionate craftsmen and storytellers who loved creating these dramatic and dynamic images, and the last thing they wanted was to awkwardly recycle existing material - but of the studio executives wanting to reduce spfx budgets while maximizing spfx screentime. Cheapness is the motive here.


Preach.

Crafting the new footage around existing footage is actually anything but lazy because the crew still has to make an attempt to design similar landscapes or cityscapes and match angles and conquer other technical issues of matching old and new footage. (You could also argue that once the film is printed and in the can it's all old anyway...) Before filming Megalon, Fukuda and Nakano got together and figured out what scenes in the script could be recycled from other movies. That process was probably very much like storyboarding entirely new sequences. A lot more work went into incorporating stock footage than just "they used scenes from other movies."

I often wonder if fans realize that there's no argument for "if only they'd filmed a new sequence." The only reason we have these movies is because those new sequences weren't filmed. The only kaiju film built around large chunks of old footage that I wish hadn't been made is Super Monster and that's only because the rest of the movie isn't good enough to support the recycled content. Even then I'm approaching this from a 2019 view: I can watch all of these movies any time on video. That wasn't a luxury anyone had in the '70s. If you were lucky you would have seen all the preceding films a few times when they were released. I'm sure a good bit of stock footage went unnoticed to audiences viewing the later movies, either because they hadn't seen those other films before or because they didn't know what they were looking at.
YouTube
変の声謎だよ。
Save All Dubs

Image

User avatar
GodzillaBurgh
Interpol Agent
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:28 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby GodzillaBurgh » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:56 am

Not a big deal to me, but in GODZILLA VS. MOTHRA (1992), is the same Battra that got his ass killed by Godzilla the same Battra from 12,000 years in the cave paintings? Because that would mean that Battra would have the ability to revert back to its larval from its adult form.
"Just as you distrust us, so we distrust others as well. It's wrong. We're all human. As humans we are responsible to each other. We are related. Refuse us, and you will abandon your brothers. We must learn to help each other."
- Sakai, Godzilla vs. The Thing

Image

User avatar
eabaker
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 11260
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby eabaker » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:37 am

GodzillaBurgh wrote:Not a big deal to me, but in GODZILLA VS. MOTHRA (1992), is the same Battra that got his ass killed by Godzilla the same Battra from 12,000 years in the cave paintings? Because that would mean that Battra would have the ability to revert back to its larval from its adult form.


I mean, it's a magical fantasy creature made of magical earth magic. Unlike even Mothra, who at least seems to go through some biological process of transforming from larva to imago, Battra just... magics from the magical former to the magical latter. I see no reason that reverse magical transformation shouldn't be magically possible.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
goji89
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 10663
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:27 pm

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby goji89 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:43 am

eabaker wrote:
GodzillaBurgh wrote:Not a big deal to me, but in GODZILLA VS. MOTHRA (1992), is the same Battra that got his ass killed by Godzilla the same Battra from 12,000 years in the cave paintings? Because that would mean that Battra would have the ability to revert back to its larval from its adult form.


I mean, it's a magical fantasy creature made of magical earth magic. Unlike even Mothra, who at least seems to go through some biological process of transforming from larva to imago, Battra just... magics from the magical former to the magical latter. I see no reason that reverse magical transformation shouldn't be magically possible.


This post is magically delicious.
Image
https://kaijugalaxy.jcink.net/index.php?act=idx

Mr_Goji_and_Watch wrote: Tsuburaya's sloppy puppets and bad Kong suits.

User avatar
GodzillaBurgh
Interpol Agent
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:28 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby GodzillaBurgh » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:34 pm

eabaker wrote:
GodzillaBurgh wrote:Not a big deal to me, but in GODZILLA VS. MOTHRA (1992), is the same Battra that got his ass killed by Godzilla the same Battra from 12,000 years in the cave paintings? Because that would mean that Battra would have the ability to revert back to its larval from its adult form.


I mean, it's a magical fantasy creature made of magical earth magic. Unlike even Mothra, who at least seems to go through some biological process of transforming from larva to imago, Battra just... magics from the magical former to the magical latter. I see no reason that reverse magical transformation shouldn't be magically possible.

Hmm. Good point :)
"Just as you distrust us, so we distrust others as well. It's wrong. We're all human. As humans we are responsible to each other. We are related. Refuse us, and you will abandon your brothers. We must learn to help each other."
- Sakai, Godzilla vs. The Thing

Image

User avatar
LockBite
Interpol Agent
Posts: 604
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:21 am

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby LockBite » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:40 pm

_JNavs_ wrote:That is an extremely unsettling shot. I would not want him saving my city.

What makes that shot so off-putting is that it evokes an uncanny valley effect because it looks so different from the “real” Godzilla we’ve been looking at the whole movie.

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Kwaidan
Posts: 6562
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm
Location: 富士山

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:57 pm

As much as I agree with Tersawa and Eabaker, is it fair to say that a lot of the stock footage completely takes me out of the immersion that a film has set up? Like seeing a different Godzilla suit takes me out of the film, or even the minor instances when there’s a clear error.

However, I also don’t like how some stock footage=the whole film is nothing but it. Despite the stock footage with Ghidorah, Godzilla vs Gigan has a wealth of new monster scenes like when Gigan attacks the city, or even during the climax. Even with Megalon, there’s still a big brawl with Jet Jaguar that’s all completely new, and yeah Megalon destroying the bridge was pretty tight. A lot of the stock footage, in a strange way was creative; giving Megalon a yellow horn beam just to reuse KG destruction shots is a bit creative. Same for Megalon hiding behind the bushes when they reuse WOG footage.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

User avatar
Dr. Professor
EDF Soldier
Posts: 3553
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby Dr. Professor » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:51 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote:As much as I agree with Tersawa and Eabaker, is it fair to say that a lot of the stock footage completely takes me out of the immersion that a film has set up? Like seeing a different Godzilla suit takes me out of the film, or even the minor instances when there’s a clear error.

However, I also don’t like how some stock footage=the whole film is nothing but it. Despite the stock footage with Ghidorah, Godzilla vs Gigan has a wealth of new monster scenes like when Gigan attacks the city, or even during the climax. Even with Megalon, there’s still a big brawl with Jet Jaguar that’s all completely new, and yeah Megalon destroying the bridge was pretty tight. A lot of the stock footage, in a strange way was creative; giving Megalon a yellow horn beam just to reuse KG destruction shots is a bit creative. Same for Megalon hiding behind the bushes when they reuse WOG footage.

They also re-use Destroy All Monsters footage from the Kilaak attack to simulate earthquakes on Monster Island in Godzilla vs. Megalon, if I'm remembering right. Also creative.
goji89 wrote: :shock: ...Sweet Yeet

Resized Image

User avatar
Grievous
Terminated
Terminated
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby Grievous » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:37 pm

For some reason...I don't mind the use of stock footage in Godzilla films.

I mean without them doing that...we may never have been gifted vs. Gigan
& vs. Megalon.
Last edited by Grievous on Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
The A.D.F Needs You! Join The Anguirus Defense Force via Private Message Today!

User avatar
Dr. Professor
EDF Soldier
Posts: 3553
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby Dr. Professor » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:11 am

The stock footage only bothers me in vs
Gigan
since there's an insane amount of it and there are shots where you can see skreeonking Mothra.
goji89 wrote: :shock: ...Sweet Yeet

Resized Image

User avatar
eabaker
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 11260
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby eabaker » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:14 am

LSD Jellyfish wrote:As much as I agree with Tersawa and Eabaker, is it fair to say that a lot of the stock footage completely takes me out of the immersion that a film has set up? Like seeing a different Godzilla suit takes me out of the film, or even the minor instances when there’s a clear error.


Of course it's fair to say that. :) A personal, subjective response is just that, personal and subjective. The only thing Teresawa and I were taking issue with was the specific criticism of the effects teams as "lazy" when this method was pretty much foisted on them.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
Smuggers
G-Force Lieutenant
Posts: 2298
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:29 pm
Location: 連邦王国

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby Smuggers » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:59 am

Dr. Professor wrote:The stock footage only bothers me in vs Gigan since there's an insane amount of it and there are shots where you can see skreeonking Mothra.

This. The stock footage in that movie is really egregious at points and it's one of the few times it's actually bothered me. When there are monsters like Rodan that are only visible in the stock footage it really takes you of the movie.
Last edited by Smuggers on Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
BARAGONBREH wrote:This website is a disturbing commentary on the state of reading comprehension today.

goji89 wrote:Its common courtesy to ask people if they can be quoted.

User avatar
goji89
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 10663
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:27 pm

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby goji89 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:23 am

Smuggers wrote:
Dr. Professor wrote:The stock footage only bothers me in vs Gigan since there's an insane amount of it and there are shots where you can see skreeonking Mothra.

This. The stock footage in that movie is really egregious at points and it's one of the few times it's actually bothered me. When there are monsters like Rodan that are [i]only[i] visible in the stock footage it really takes you of the movie.


Why you mother Smuggers.....took the words outta my mouth. .....give them back!
Image
https://kaijugalaxy.jcink.net/index.php?act=idx

Mr_Goji_and_Watch wrote: Tsuburaya's sloppy puppets and bad Kong suits.

User avatar
Smuggers
G-Force Lieutenant
Posts: 2298
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:29 pm
Location: 連邦王国

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby Smuggers » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:28 am

I honestly wasn't even aware there was much stock footage in Megalon, they must've hid it really well.
Last edited by Smuggers on Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:30 am, edited 3 times in total.
BARAGONBREH wrote:This website is a disturbing commentary on the state of reading comprehension today.

goji89 wrote:Its common courtesy to ask people if they can be quoted.

User avatar
Kaiju-King42
Kwaidan
Posts: 5768
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: Monster Island

Re: Kaiju pet peeves

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:22 pm

Smuggers wrote:I honestly wasn't even aware there was much stock footage in Megalon, they must've hid it really well.


The bulk of it is in Megalon's rampage, IIRC.
Godzillian wrote:
Godzilla21 wrote:What is up with the American trope of hide the monster?

Jaws happened


ernesth100 wrote:
Ryguy wrote:When the new director is announced, I guarantee this fanbase will be torn through the middle...

We're always split down the middle. TK is like a giant buttcrack.


Anno wrote:never forget tadpole :godzilla:





Return to “General Toho Films”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests