Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

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Who’s The Deadliest?

Hedorah
32
64%
Destroyah
18
36%
 
Total votes: 50

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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby miguelnuva » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:38 pm

PitchBlackProgress wrote:You’re not wrong, Godzilla looked plum pitiful in some scenes during his fight with Hedorah, if anyone honestly thinks Godzilla would have pulled through during that fight without the electrodes, they’re kidding themselves.
Dude was losing body parts left and right, I don’t remember that happening with Destroyah, and he has a super duper deadly laser horn that chops kaiju in half!!! :lol:


The scene that sells it for me is Hedorah leaves Godzilla, walks off from him and then next time Godzilla shows up he's blind, limping and has both hands burnt to the bone.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:42 pm

miguelnuva wrote:
PitchBlackProgress wrote:You’re not wrong, Godzilla looked plum pitiful in some scenes during his fight with Hedorah, if anyone honestly thinks Godzilla would have pulled through during that fight without the electrodes, they’re kidding themselves.
Dude was losing body parts left and right, I don’t remember that happening with Destroyah, and he has a super duper deadly laser horn that chops kaiju in half!!! :lol:


The scene that sells it for me is Hedorah leaves Godzilla, walks off from him and then next time Godzilla shows up he's blind, limping and has both hands burnt to the bone.

Ah yeah, I know exactly what you’re talking about, he’s staggering towards Hedorah, and for the first time he really looks bad, like he’s about to kill over at any moment.
It’s that scene and the one where Godzilla gets dumped into the sludge pit that he seriously looks pitiful.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby edgaguirus » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:02 pm

Godzilla just couldn't handle Hedorah alone. He wasn't able to do the level of damage needed to win, while Hedorah had more than enough power to hurt Godzilla.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby KaijuCanuck » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:07 pm

I will say, while I prefer the Destroyah character, Hedorah is maybe the only Godzilla foe where I really breath a sigh of relief once he’s defeated. It’s like, freaking finally, that thing was tough.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Grievous » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:56 pm

KaijuCanuck wrote:I will say, while I prefer the Destroyah character, Hedorah is maybe the only Godzilla foe where I really breath a sigh of relief once he’s defeated. It’s like, freaking finally, that thing was tough.

He's like a turd that wouldn't flush.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Dr. Professor » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:20 pm

Grievous wrote:
KaijuCanuck wrote:I will say, while I prefer the Destroyah character, Hedorah is maybe the only Godzilla foe where I really breath a sigh of relief once he’s defeated. It’s like, freaking finally, that thing was tough.

He's like a turd that wouldn't flush.

That analogy works in more than one way and I love it. Nice one.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Grievous » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:28 pm

Dr. Professor wrote:
Grievous wrote:
KaijuCanuck wrote:I will say, while I prefer the Destroyah character, Hedorah is maybe the only Godzilla foe where I really breath a sigh of relief once he’s defeated. It’s like, freaking finally, that thing was tough.

He's like a turd that wouldn't flush.

That analogy works in more than one way and I love it. Nice one.

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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Gojirawars 03 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:14 am

edgaguirus wrote:Godzilla just couldn't handle Hedorah alone. He wasn't able to do the level of damage needed to win, while Hedorah had more than enough power to hurt Godzilla.

Same goes for Destroyah, who only lost because of the Military using freezing weapons on him as he retreated to no doubt attempt to evolve again.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Maritonic » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:38 am

Gojirawars 03 wrote:
edgaguirus wrote:Godzilla just couldn't handle Hedorah alone. He wasn't able to do the level of damage needed to win, while Hedorah had more than enough power to hurt Godzilla.

Same goes for Destroyah, who only lost because of the Military using freezing weapons on him as he retreated to no doubt attempt to evolve again.


You sure about that? May want to rewatch.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Gojirawars 03 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:41 am

Maritonic wrote:
Gojirawars 03 wrote:
edgaguirus wrote:Godzilla just couldn't handle Hedorah alone. He wasn't able to do the level of damage needed to win, while Hedorah had more than enough power to hurt Godzilla.

Same goes for Destroyah, who only lost because of the Military using freezing weapons on him as he retreated to no doubt attempt to evolve again.


You sure about that? May want to rewatch.

I may have to rewatch, but I distinctly remember Destroyah retreating the battle, only to be shot down by freeze-maser tanks
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Zarm » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:00 am

Gojirawars 03 wrote:
Maritonic wrote:
Gojirawars 03 wrote:Same goes for Destroyah, who only lost because of the Military using freezing weapons on him as he retreated to no doubt attempt to evolve again.


You sure about that? May want to rewatch.

I may have to rewatch, but I distinctly remember Destroyah retreating the battle, only to be shot down by freeze-maser tanks


I believe that's true- although, whether he was able to evolve/reform again (since he wasn't doing that to refresh damage anymore) or was just retreating, hard to say.

However, Godzilla was able to bring him to the state of trying to retreat solo- unlike Hedorah, who only fled once the human trap and Godzilla functioned in conjunction; on his own, Godzilla couldn't get close. Likewise, Destroyah didn't seem to have 'more than enough power to hurt Godzilla' in the sense of defeat, since Godzilla was the clear victor. So, I'm not sure 'Same goes for Destroyah' can really be applied just because he ran away. If anything, it demonstrates rather the opposite, considering the surrounding circumstances.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Maritonic » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:01 am

Gojirawars 03 wrote:
Maritonic wrote:
Gojirawars 03 wrote:Same goes for Destroyah, who only lost because of the Military using freezing weapons on him as he retreated to no doubt attempt to evolve again.


You sure about that? May want to rewatch.

I may have to rewatch, but I distinctly remember Destroyah retreating the battle, only to be shot down by freeze-maser tanks


Yeah but there's no evidence at all that he was going to evolve. It was more likely he was retreating because he was getting skreeonked up by Godzilla.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby LockBite » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:00 pm

This is kind of comparing apples to oranges. For one, Burning Godzilla has a much stronger beam than Showa Godzilla, that much is clear. But by nature of the universe they live in, the Showa kaiju have far better close quarters combat capabilities. It comes down to whether Burning Godzilla’s beam could damage Hedorah. Maybe blast it into chunks, but could it dry them out?

I will say this: a scaled-up Hedorah would annihilate Destoroyah.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Gojirawars 03 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:09 am

Maritonic wrote:
Gojirawars 03 wrote:
Maritonic wrote:
You sure about that? May want to rewatch.

I may have to rewatch, but I distinctly remember Destroyah retreating the battle, only to be shot down by freeze-maser tanks


Yeah but there's no evidence at all that he was going to evolve. It was more likely he was retreating because he was getting skreeonked up by Godzilla.

I'd say the comparison isn't really fair in that regard, however. Because Hedorah was defeated by a combination of human tech and Showa Godzilla. But Destroyah was able to hold his own against arguably the most powerful Godzilla incarnation to date.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Zarm » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:12 am

Gojirawars 03 wrote:
Maritonic wrote:
Gojirawars 03 wrote:I may have to rewatch, but I distinctly remember Destroyah retreating the battle, only to be shot down by freeze-maser tanks


Yeah but there's no evidence at all that he was going to evolve. It was more likely he was retreating because he was getting skreeonked up by Godzilla.

I'd say the comparison isn't really fair in that regard, however. Because Hedorah was defeated by a combination of human tech and Showa Godzilla. But Destroyah was able to hold his own against arguably the most powerful Godzilla incarnation to date.


No- he was soundly defeated, bleeding profusely, and running away.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Gojirawars 03 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:46 am

Zarm wrote:
Gojirawars 03 wrote:
Maritonic wrote:
Yeah but there's no evidence at all that he was going to evolve. It was more likely he was retreating because he was getting skreeonked up by Godzilla.

I'd say the comparison isn't really fair in that regard, however. Because Hedorah was defeated by a combination of human tech and Showa Godzilla. But Destroyah was able to hold his own against arguably the most powerful Godzilla incarnation to date.


No- he was soundly defeated, bleeding profusely, and running away.

Well, yeah. But not before killing Godzilla Jr, and only went down due to Godzilla going critical and using what is likely his most powerful form of Atomic Breath in the series, and then getting taken out by freezer tanks as he tried to retreat.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby Dr. Professor » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:51 am

Gojirawars 03 wrote:
Zarm wrote:
Gojirawars 03 wrote:I'd say the comparison isn't really fair in that regard, however. Because Hedorah was defeated by a combination of human tech and Showa Godzilla. But Destroyah was able to hold his own against arguably the most powerful Godzilla incarnation to date.


No- he was soundly defeated, bleeding profusely, and running away.

Well, yeah. But not before killing Godzilla Jr, and only went down due to Godzilla going critical and using what is likely his most powerful form of Atomic Breath in the series, and then getting taken out by freezer tanks as he tried to retreat.

I don't think killing Godzilla Jr. is much of an achievement.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby szmigiel » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:45 am

What did Destroyah really do to Godzilla? Drag him around the airport? That's about it really. He never made Godzilla back away, never made Godzilla pause or try a new strategy. Once Godzilla started to hit him with his beams, Destroyah is pretty much spewing blood and not doing so well.

Destroyah is portrayed very inconsistently in the film. The freezer weapons make the Juveniles retreat and form the Aggregate, and then change into the flying form all with little to no effect. But all of a sudden at the end of the film they suddenly work? Even though Destroyah is two to three times larger then before?

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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby KaijuCanuck » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:58 am

szmigiel wrote:Destroyah is portrayed very inconsistently in the film. The freezer weapons make the Juveniles retreat and form the Aggregate, and then change into the flying form all with little to no effect. But all of a sudden at the end of the film they suddenly work? Even though Destroyah is two to three times larger then before?


This is exactly why I personally find it so difficult to do these comparisons, or do fantasy matches. These movies just work so much more based on plot logic than on objective facts and rules.
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Re: Hedorah vs. Destroyah: Godzilla’s Deadliest Foe

Postby UltramanGoji » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:07 am

szmigiel wrote:What did Destroyah really do to Godzilla?


I did an analysis of the final fight back on the first page of this thread:

UltramanGoji wrote:In the context of the films themselves, as in what was demonstrated on film and not by what ancillary media states, Hedorah is one of Godzilla's biggest challenges and required human intervention to be defeated.

Destoroyah, on the other hand, is not. Their only claim to fame is killing Godzilla Junior and...well, that's it really.

Keep in mind, I like Destoroyah. I like their design and their origin is unique and interesting. Those concepts just...weren't put to fruition well in the movie.

In fact, I'm going to actually watch the battle right now as I'm typing this and add what exactly Destoroyah did that could be considered "a challenge".

- They blast Godzilla with the Micro-Oxygen beam and Godzilla falls down. A few moments later, Godzilla gets right back up.
- They knock over Godzilla while the two...hug? Shove each other?
- They drag Godzilla by their tail and...drop him into the water. Godzilla gets right back up from this, practically unscathed.
- The infamous Laser Horn scene! Godzilla actually does get cut up pretty badly and reels back in pain...but then just goes straight into blasting Destoroyah with his heat beam. This exchange actually results in Destoroyah taking considerably much more damage than Godzilla and even breaking down into their Aggregate forms.
- Speaking of, the Aggregate forms nibble at Godzilla's ankles and eventually cause him to topple over by swarming him (one at a time, though) which Godzilla gets right back up from, naturally. Also I guess they drain his atomic energy or something because he flashes a blue beam a few times but it goes completely unexplained so there's no point in trying to figure out what it means.
- Destoroyah blasts Godzilla with their Micro-Oxygen beam after the latter mourns Junior's death. It...does nothing.
- Destoroyah grabs Godzilla with their tail...and actually does something! Apparently, it drains energy or something because Godzilla's burns fade out a few times. They then toss him into a building before Godzilla stands back up again immediately (they really don't know how to do tension well in these fights).

It's at this point that Godzilla starts to physically melt down and his heat ray becomes more powerful. Destoroyah gets hit twice with it, leaving visible damage as soon as they try to escape. That's, of course, when the military shoots them down with their freezer guns and the monster is never seen again.

So honestly? At the beginning of this post, I said Destoroyah wasn't a big challenge and...really, they kind of were.

But...being a challenge isn't a unique trait to Destoroyah. SpaceGodzilla, Mechagodzilla, Mothra & Battra, Ghidorah, all the Heisei villains more-or-less had an advantage over Godzilla and properly bashed him around a few times. That's just how the Godzilla films work. He fights an enemy, looks like he's about to lose, and then bounces back for the dramatic victory. It's basic storytelling, really.

Hedorah and Destoroyah were both kaiju that required human intervention to defeat, but Hedorah is the only one that was defeated by Godzilla and humanity simultaneously. Godzilla activates the electrodes with his atomic breath to dry out Hedorah. In GvD, Destoroyah is severely wounded by Godzilla's atomic breath and tries to flee but is shot down by the military.

Destoroyah also had the disadvantage of being in a story that didn't revolve around them. Whether or not they were even in the movie, Godzilla would have died anyway. The story is about Godzilla's death more than it is about Godzilla facing Destoroyah. The climax of the film does not revolve around Destoroyah's death, but Godzilla's.

I think I've rambled on enough, but hopefully you see my point. While Destoroyah is somewhat of a challenge for Godzilla, they're ultimately nothing extraordinary in the grand scheme of the Heisei films. I'll do another one of these "live analysis" for Hedorah's fight sometime later.
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