Godzilla's Toughest Opponent Over All

[Zarm]

I mean, if we are disqualifying kaiju based on how cheap they are I believe SpaceGodzilla, Super Mechagodzilla and Hedorah are more guilty of that than Kaizer Ghidorah. Barriers that block attacks along with telekinesis, specialized armor with cables that target the opponent's specific weakness and regeneration with a super acidic touch are far cheaper than the gravity beams (Which Final Wars Godzilla did overcome with the power boost. So it is not invincible.)

I just meant the vampiric bite. to me, that was the cheap part- not the other attacks.

[Maritonic]

This pick of mine might sound cliched, but my pick for Godzilla's Toughest Opponent would be Mankind. Despite being the King of the Monsters and possessing more power than any single human, Mankind has consistently proven to be Godzilla's equal. Humanity has killed Godzilla on a few occasions, with weapons and inventions (e.g., Oxygen Destroyer, Super MechaGodzilla) that would qualify for this list. Hard-fought battles have been won through ingenuity and planning (e.g., luring Godzilla into Mt. Mihara, poisoning him with Anti-Nuclear Bacteria), improvising on the spot (e.g., blowing up Godzilla from within in GMK), preventing cataclysms (e.g., preventing Godzilla from melting down), and, in at least one continuity, keeping him contained (e.g., Destroy All Monsters).

Humankind has suffered decisive defeats, of course. But let's be real: When you're advanced enough to weaponize a miniature black hole and, despite everything, you still lose? There's no shame in that.

If I had to choose a kaiju adversary, however, I'd pick SpaceGodzilla. SpaceGodzilla is essentially an augmented Godzilla, with a wicked mind to match. Godzilla needed help in the form of MOGUERA to stop him, an even then it was close. Without the humans and MOGUERA, SpaceGodzilla would've slain the mighty King of the Monsters, and turned the planet into a crystal fortress.

Well if you're going to count Mankind's wins, you have to count their losses as well. Think of all the massive amounts of destruction, death, failed attempts to stop him that have occurred. The defeat of Mecha King Ghidorah, Super Mechagodzilla, MOGUERA, Super X 1 and 2, Kiryu, not even the Dimension Tide could stop him.

We've definitely put up a good fight, but with all the massive amount of death at Godzilla's hands (metaphorically speaking of course), I'm not so sure we're truly his toughest adversary.

Added in 1 minute 34 seconds:

I mean, if we are disqualifying kaiju based on how cheap they are I believe SpaceGodzilla, Super Mechagodzilla and Hedorah are more guilty of that than Kaizer Ghidorah. Barriers that block attacks along with telekinesis, specialized armor with cables that target the opponent's specific weakness and regeneration with a super acidic touch are far cheaper than the gravity beams (Which Final Wars Godzilla did overcome with the power boost. So it is not invincible.)

I just meant the vampiric bite. to me, that was the cheap part- not the other attacks.

How exactly is executing an ability he has a cheap move?

[Coobzilla03]

Humans are his greatest adversary because he simply can't put us down. He may have killed lots of us, but he can't kill us all. Killing bunches of people is like Godzilla scratching an opponent. It does damage, but the fighting continues. Besides, we've killed him or crippled him more than anything else.

[Godzillian]

Humans are his greatest adversary because he simply can't put us down. He may have killed lots of us, but he can't kill us all. Killing bunches of people is like Godzilla scratching an opponent. It does damage, but the fighting continues. Besides, we've killed him or crippled him more than anything else.

you don't need to post the same exact comment twice dude

[Zarm]

I just meant the vampiric bite. to me, that was the cheap part- not the other attacks.

How exactly is executing an ability he has a cheap move?

I think we're getting mixed up between in-universe and out-of-universe. I consider the power itself a cheap one to have been given him, hence why I don't respect him as a threat. He is a threat, but for a reason that, to me, is just silly and OP. (Appropriate for the movie). Other kaiju are a threat because of the fight they put up; Keiser Ghidorah is a threat because he has an 'insta-kill bite' written into his power set. Again, he's just as deadly- but to me, that's a really cheap, artificial, arbitrary way of creating a threat.

[godjacob]

I mean, if we are disqualifying kaiju based on how cheap they are I believe SpaceGodzilla, Super Mechagodzilla and Hedorah are more guilty of that than Kaizer Ghidorah. Barriers that block attacks along with telekinesis, specialized armor with cables that target the opponent's specific weakness and regeneration with a super acidic touch are far cheaper than the gravity beams (Which Final Wars Godzilla did overcome with the power boost. So it is not invincible.)

I just meant the vampiric bite. to me, that was the cheap part- not the other attacks.

It's on the same level as Hedorah's acidic skin. If anything less so given Kaiser Ghidorah needs to bite the enemy in order to use the ability. Also Orga can do the same thing yet I don't see anyone call him OP (Even if I think he along with the M.U.T.O. are among the more unique enemies Godzilla has).

Also if we are considering "mankind" then Dr. Serizawa should be on the list. He flat out killed Godzilla which counts for something XD.

[Coobzilla03]

Humans are his greatest adversary because he simply can't put us down. He may have killed lots of us, but he can't kill us all. Killing bunches of people is like Godzilla scratching an opponent. It does damage, but the fighting continues. Besides, we've killed him or crippled him more than anything else.

you don't need to post the same exact comment twice dude

It was in reply to Maritonic, Ijust didn't quote him.Live and let live.

[Maritonic]

I just meant the vampiric bite. to me, that was the cheap part- not the other attacks.

How exactly is executing an ability he has a cheap move?

I think we're getting mixed up between in-universe and out-of-universe. I consider the power itself a cheap one to have been given him, hence why I don't respect him as a threat. He is a threat, but for a reason that, to me, is just silly and OP. (Appropriate for the movie). Other kaiju are a threat because of the fight they put up; Keiser Ghidorah is a threat because he has an 'insta-kill bite' written into his power set. Again, he's just as deadly- but to me, that's a really cheap, artificial, arbitrary way of creating a threat.

Then do you consider the Absolute Zero cannon on Kiryu or Godzilla's Spiral Ray in Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II cheap as well? Because by your definition, those would fit the description. I don't know, to me this is just a power he has and something that can be adapted to and overcome. The only reason Godzilla didn't was because of Final Wars being, well, Final Wars.

I agree with you about not really including Keiser but not because of those reasons; I think Final Wars played way too much with power scales in all the wrong ways to really understand who had what powers. Example is Gigan. That Gigan should be beefed up like CRAZY...Godzilla killed him in seconds. It actually takes Godzilla longer to kill Kumonga than Gigan. Let that process. So, it's hard to really consider any of the Final Wars roster in a power scale.

[Zarm]

It's on the same level as Hedorah's acidic skin. If anything less so given Kaiser Ghidorah needs to bite the enemy in order to use the ability. Also Orga can do the same thing yet I don't see anyone call him OP (Even if I think he along with the M.U.T.O. are among the more unique enemies Godzilla has).

Also if we are considering "mankind" then Dr. Serizawa should be on the list. He flat out killed Godzilla which counts for something XD.

Godzilla can still move and act despite Hedorah's acid skin. He must attack differently, but he isn't paralyzed and helpless until his inevitable death. Likewise for Orga's bite, as Godzilla was still able to launch a pulse and kill his enemy. Neither is an instant death-sentence just for connecting.

[Godzillian]

It's on the same level as Hedorah's acidic skin. If anything less so given Kaiser Ghidorah needs to bite the enemy in order to use the ability. Also Orga can do the same thing yet I don't see anyone call him OP (Even if I think he along with the M.U.T.O. are among the more unique enemies Godzilla has).

Also if we are considering "mankind" then Dr. Serizawa should be on the list. He flat out killed Godzilla which counts for something XD.

Godzilla can still move and act despite Hedorah's acid skin. He must attack differently, but he isn't paralyzed and helpless until his inevitable death. Likewise for Orga's bite, as Godzilla was still able to launch a pulse and kill his enemy. Neither is an instant death-sentence just for connecting.

except its brought up in film that Godzilla was exhausted before even fighting Kaiser Ghidorah not to mention the deus ex machina power up Godzilla gets that pretty laughably powers up Godzilla to a ridiculous amount

[Maritonic]

Yeah godzillian has a point. I do seem to think we're forgetting that Monster X was beating the living shit out of Godzilla for a while, then Keiser was wailing on him before this bite actually happened. In all fairness.

[godjacob]

It's on the same level as Hedorah's acidic skin. If anything less so given Kaiser Ghidorah needs to bite the enemy in order to use the ability. Also Orga can do the same thing yet I don't see anyone call him OP (Even if I think he along with the M.U.T.O. are among the more unique enemies Godzilla has).

Also if we are considering "mankind" then Dr. Serizawa should be on the list. He flat out killed Godzilla which counts for something XD.

Godzilla can still move and act despite Hedorah's acid skin. He must attack differently, but he isn't paralyzed and helpless until his inevitable death. Likewise for Orga's bite, as Godzilla was still able to launch a pulse and kill his enemy. Neither is an instant death-sentence just for connecting.

except its brought up in film that Godzilla was exhausted before even fighting Kaiser Ghidorah not to mention the deus ex machina power up Godzilla gets that pretty laughably powers up Godzilla to a ridiculous amount

I mean you'd be hard press to find any Godzilla movie without a deus ex machina power up in it. Either for the favor of Godzilla or one of his enemies. Remember Rodan's never before mentioned or hinted at ability to transfer his life energy to Godzilla after it was killed?

[Zarm]

Then do you consider the Absolute Zero cannon on Kiryu or Godzilla's Spiral Ray in Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II cheap as well? Because by your definition, those would fit the description. I don't know, to me this is just a power he has and something that can be adapted to and overcome. The only reason Godzilla didn't was because of Final Wars being, well, Final Wars.

I agree with you about not really including Keiser but not because of those reasons; I think Final Wars played way too much with power scales in all the wrong ways to really understand who had what powers. Example is Gigan. That Gigan should be beefed up like CRAZY...Godzilla killed him in seconds. It actually takes Godzilla longer to kill Kumonga than Gigan. Let that process. So, it's hard to really consider any of the Final Wars roster in a power scale.

The AZC is pretty cheap, yeah. The spiral ray is not comparable, to my view.

I honestly don't get this argument, guys. I honestly don't get why this is controversial, at all. Keiser Ghidorah has an insta-kill bite that completely halts any attempt to resist; it just immediately ends a battle. That is something no other kaiju has. Yeah, the AZC could be comparable; didn't really occur because it was never successfully deployed; or else, it was, and didn't have the effect they intended (hard to tell). However, other attacks that complicate battle are not the same thing as a battle-ending, instant-paralyzing, completely-lethal, one-hit attack.

I guess cheapness is in the eye of the beholder. But I think it's pretty plain that Keiser's bite, with the possible exception of the AZC, is on a completely different level to other kaiju attacks; it's just an instant, no-warning, one-shot that instantly cancels any possibility of reprisal or defense by rendering the other kaiju helpless where it attacks. I find that both cheap, and quantitatively different form any other attack. Obviously, I am alone in that.

But I definitely loathe all Ghidorahs more than ever after today.

[godjacob]

Then do you consider the Absolute Zero cannon on Kiryu or Godzilla's Spiral Ray in Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II cheap as well? Because by your definition, those would fit the description. I don't know, to me this is just a power he has and something that can be adapted to and overcome. The only reason Godzilla didn't was because of Final Wars being, well, Final Wars.

I agree with you about not really including Keiser but not because of those reasons; I think Final Wars played way too much with power scales in all the wrong ways to really understand who had what powers. Example is Gigan. That Gigan should be beefed up like CRAZY...Godzilla killed him in seconds. It actually takes Godzilla longer to kill Kumonga than Gigan. Let that process. So, it's hard to really consider any of the Final Wars roster in a power scale.

The AZC is pretty cheap, yeah. The spiral ray is not comparable, to my view.

I honestly don't get this argument, guys. I honestly don't get why this is controversial, at all. Keiser Ghidorah has an insta-kill bite that completely halts any attempt to resist; it just immediately ends a battle. That is something no other kaiju has. Yeah, the AZC could be comparable; didn't really occur because it was never successfully deployed; or else, it was, and didn't have the effect they intended (hard to tell). However, other attacks that complicate battle are not the same thing as a battle-ending, instant-paralyzing, completely-lethal, one-hit attack.

I guess cheapness is in the eye of the beholder. But I think it's pretty plain that Keiser's bite, with the possible exception of the AZC, is on a completely different level to other kaiju attacks; it's just an instant, no-warning, one-shot that instantly cancels any possibility of reprisal or defense by rendering the other kaiju helpless where it attacks. I find that both cheap, and quantitatively different form any other attack. Obviously, I am alone in that.

But I definitely loathe all Ghidorahs more than ever after today.

Hey, at least only loathe Kaiser Ghidorah. King Ghidorah never did anything wrong and if my arguments make you loathe them as a whole than at least loathe me over them. It's only fair.

[Maritonic]

Then do you consider the Absolute Zero cannon on Kiryu or Godzilla's Spiral Ray in Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II cheap as well? Because by your definition, those would fit the description. I don't know, to me this is just a power he has and something that can be adapted to and overcome. The only reason Godzilla didn't was because of Final Wars being, well, Final Wars.

I agree with you about not really including Keiser but not because of those reasons; I think Final Wars played way too much with power scales in all the wrong ways to really understand who had what powers. Example is Gigan. That Gigan should be beefed up like CRAZY...Godzilla killed him in seconds. It actually takes Godzilla longer to kill Kumonga than Gigan. Let that process. So, it's hard to really consider any of the Final Wars roster in a power scale.

The AZC is pretty cheap, yeah. The spiral ray is not comparable, to my view.

I honestly don't get this argument, guys. I honestly don't get why this is controversial, at all. Keiser Ghidorah has an insta-kill bite that completely halts any attempt to resist; it just immediately ends a battle. That is something no other kaiju has. Yeah, the AZC could be comparable; didn't really occur because it was never successfully deployed; or else, it was, and didn't have the effect they intended (hard to tell). However, other attacks that complicate battle are not the same thing as a battle-ending, instant-paralyzing, completely-lethal, one-hit attack.

I guess cheapness is in the eye of the beholder. But I think it's pretty plain that Keiser's bite, with the possible exception of the AZC, is on a completely different level to other kaiju attacks; it's just an instant, no-warning, one-shot that instantly cancels any possibility of reprisal or defense by rendering the other kaiju helpless where it attacks. I find that both cheap, and quantitatively different form any other attack. Obviously, I am alone in that.

But I definitely loathe all Ghidorahs more than ever after today.

With respect, godzillian did bring up a very valid point that there was indeed a hell of a fight leading up to that bite. It's not like Keiser walked up to him and bit him; he dragged him around, slammed him around, and when he was defeated started draining his energy all after Monster X beat the crap out of him physically. Godzilla was weak. But the best part is; Godzilla still ripped his head off and won, so obviously it's not all that cheap.

I'd say, as a concept, the Absolute Zero Canon is more cheap but I don't see either of this abilities as such. They're just powers the respective kaiju have.

[godjacob]

I disagree on the overall notion that just because it is a monster's power doesn't mean it can't be cheap. Maybe not in the context of the films they were in but defiantly in the context of something like KWC they are.

Though I think the vamperic bite is the least of the "cheap" powers. People like Zarm are 100% free to disagree. Everyone has a right to their opinion.

[Maritonic]

I disagree on the overall notion that just because it is a monster's power doesn't mean it can't be cheap. Maybe not in the context of the films they were in but defiantly in the context of something like KWC they are.

Though I think the vamperic bite is the least of the "cheap" powers. People like Zarm are 100% free to disagree. Everyone has a right to their opinion.

Yup. Everyone does. I'm sure Zarm knows this was just a discussion. Not telling him or you or anyone their opinions are invalid.

[Zarm]

Hey, at least only loathe Kaiser Ghidorah. King Ghidorah never did anything wrong and if my arguments make you loathe them as a whole than at least loathe me over them. It's only fair.

Nope. Like I said, Grand King Ghidorah is giving me misery over on the FMs. All day has been spent growing more and more arguments over Ghidorah that I wouldn't have even thought should be arguments in the first place. This has been six hours of seething, mounting aggravation, and all Ghidorahs must pay the price.

[Maritonic]

Hey, at least only loathe Kaiser Ghidorah. King Ghidorah never did anything wrong and if my arguments make you loathe them as a whole than at least loathe me over them. It's only fair.

Nope. Like I said, Grand King Ghidorah is giving me misery over on the FMs. All day has been spent growing more and more arguments over Ghidorah that I wouldn't have even thought should be arguments in the first place. This has been six hours of seething, mounting aggravation, and all Ghidorahs must pay the price.

Well, kinda goes back to what I said earlier; it's so hard to quantify who is stronger than who because so many of these powers rely on plot elements and other factors. So when you put kaiju up against each other in the Fantasy Matches or ask Who is the Toughest? you're going to get resistance because there are so many factors.

[Zarm]

Hey, at least only loathe Kaiser Ghidorah. King Ghidorah never did anything wrong and if my arguments make you loathe them as a whole than at least loathe me over them. It's only fair.

Nope. Like I said, Grand King Ghidorah is giving me misery over on the FMs. All day has been spent growing more and more arguments over Ghidorah that I wouldn't have even thought should be arguments in the first place. This has been six hours of seething, mounting aggravation, and all Ghidorahs must pay the price.

Well, kinda goes back to what I said earlier; it's so hard to quantify who is stronger than who because so many of these powers rely on plot elements and other factors. So when you put kaiju up against each other in the Fantasy Matches or ask Who is the Toughest? you're going to get resistance because there are so many factors.

This is very true. My frustration- and indeed, probably most of my resentment toward kaiju like Ghidorah and SMG come from the FM boards- are the times when I feel that debate and logic are met with reputation that doesn't allow the arguments to be fairly considered. Here, I was frustrated by lack of agreement, but at least knew that the discussion was getting a fair shake. You evaluated the arguments and found them wanting. On the FM, sometimes it feels that certain kaiju have a rep that does half the fighting for them, and presents a barrier to considering any points that don't accord with it.

Ironically, of course, Hedorah used to be among those- until, on my most recent rewatch, I formed an opinion that happened to match the broader concensus. So maybe it's all sour grapes, I dunno. I'm just tired, and tired of arguing- and yet compulsively drawn to debate. It is a poor condition in which to torture oneself.