Why are the Toho Godzilla films so chaste?

[Ivo-goji]

I kinda like how there is not much kissing, its a nice change from american movies and all thier blah blah romance stuff

Apparently a lot of people didn't like that Mako and Raleigh don't kiss at the end of Pacific Rim. Personally I like that they didn't cause they left enough room for you to decide if they are a couple or just partners on a job like cops or soldiers. If they ever do end up romantically involved I think it'd be best if they actually build it up through the sequels (assuming any of them will follow these two, there is a LOT of other Jager pilots).

It was refreshing to get a Hollywood flick in which the heroes don't go "LET'S skreeonk!" after saving the world.

I felt that Mako and Raleigh's non-kiss was directly inspired by how Japanese media tones down romance in science fiction works.

That and the headbutt thing was very, very anime like.

[omgitsgodzilla]

I appreciated the subtlety. A kiss at that point would've felt kind of unnecessary, like an obligatory concession to the conventions of American action movies. We got the point without it.

[LSD Jellyfish]

It's nice knowing everyone on tohokingdom is an expert in Japanese culture.

My only comment and reflection is that the Godzilla movies, whether you want to accept this or not, often have poorly written characters. Adding pointless romantic subplots, to characters you're barely attached to would do nothing for the film, especially when the films are short to begin with. It would just be superfluous and distracting.

I also disagree in the first place that Toho's films are any more chaste than American stuff out at the time. In American media for the longest time, especially on television you couldn't show two married adults occupying the same bed.

[BlankAccount]

HA HA HA no.

[LSD Jellyfish]

It's nice knowing everyone on tohokingdom is an expert in Japanese culture.

My only comment and reflection is that the Godzilla movies, whether you want to accept this or not, often have poorly written characters. Adding pointless romantic subplots, to characters you're barely attached to would do nothing for the film, especially when the films are short to begin with. It would just be superfluous and distracting.

I also disagree in the first place that Toho's films are any more chaste than American stuff out at the time. In American media for the longest time, especially on television you couldn't show two married adults occupying the same bed.

Just going to post some examples of Japanese erotica cinema, to back up my point that Godzilla being chaste has nothin to do with Japanese culture. Japanese culture is ubiquitous, and I feel as though just saying anything Japanese related is a result of Japanese culture is incredibly lazy, and makes incredibly hasty generalizations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_ ... the_Senses
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Passion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pornographers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(1977_film)
And many many more, either have incredible fanservice. Straight up sex, or much more.

Ya'll don't know dick about Shunga either.

Also, it's nice that you're all completely ignoring the pornography in Godzilla vs Megalon, the girl from son of Godzilla, all the bikini clad island girls, a lot of the sexual machoism in Godzilla vs King Kong, Godzilla himself totally being a perv to the girl in EbirahHOTD, the breast scene in TOMG, and much more.

[Space Hunter M]

Pinky violence Toei Godzilla film.

[Ivo-goji]

Also, it's nice that you're all completely ignoring the pornography in Godzilla vs Megalon, the girl from son of Godzilla, all the bikini clad island girls, a lot of the sexual machoism in Godzilla vs King Kong, Godzilla himself totally being a perv to the girl in EbirahHOTD, the breast scene in TOMG, and much more.

None of those things qualify as romance, so you're still wrong.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Also, it's nice that you're all completely ignoring the pornography in Godzilla vs Megalon, the girl from son of Godzilla, all the bikini clad island girls, a lot of the sexual machoism in Godzilla vs King Kong, Godzilla himself totally being a perv to the girl in EbirahHOTD, the breast scene in TOMG, and much more.

None of those things qualify as romance, so you're still wrong.

Who are you to dictate what is and isn't romance/romantic? The scene with the reporter running through the jungle with the girl in Son of Godzilla is certainly romantic. Same for all the talk about going to the big city, and them swimming together.

And this thread wasn't about romance, it was about chasteness. But if we want to get into romance I don't see how the films aren't romantic in the modern sense. The entire first film hinges heavily on a love triangle, beyond the titular monster the movie is really about Serizawa coming to grips with a lot of things and killing himself because he lost his love interest. The entire second film focuses way too much on a completely pointless romance plot.

KKVG has the boyfriend literally drive towards Godzilla to save his girlfriend from Godzilla, then drags her through the water to save her life. Not to mention again all the scantily clad native scenes.

Ghidorah the THM had the cop who fell in love with the princess. Frankenstien vs Baragon certainly had a romance between the white male lead and the Japanese woman.

Godzilla vs Hedorah has two teenagers presumably in love. You don't realy see anything develop with them, because hey, the movie isn't about them.

I'm saying I disagree with the notion that the films are chaste, or lack romance. If you want to say they lack nudity, that's fine, but at the same time many other countries banned nudity in film. Don't just be lazy and say it's a culture when it isn't.

[Rodan]

I think people are badly confusing a tolerance for nudity and explicit erotica in a way that's confusing for most Western cultures, and a tendency for visual romance to occur in general-audience films (sloppy kisses and implicit sex scenes of the vein that you see in Hollywood films).

The former is totally a part of Japense culture, and has a time and place, and the latter is not.

That's obviously a little reductive, but the thread asks, "Why no explicit romance in Godzilla movies/why are they so chastely presented?," to which the answer is, "It's not just Godzilla movies." (This is ignoring the ones that are explicitly for kids.)

Also, lol at citing House, explicit erotica, or fanservice otaku projects as counter-examples.

Re: LSD Jellyfish: I think all those relationships are great examples of the difference in execution here and what you'd see in Hollywood. We are told there are relationships, but even when they're a focal point, we rarely see so much as handholding or a kiss. They are very staid, very chastely presented. Frankenstein vs. Baragon will hardly even confirm the two are on a date, and in the same scene, he talks about going back to the U.S.

Kurosawa films? Chaste depictions of romance. Even major adult-oriented releases? They tend to be more chaste than their Hollywood equivalents. Random example, 2015's Grasshopper was a wide-release R-equivalent revenge film premised on avenging the protagonist's fiancée, and I don't recall if we so much as see them kiss.

And the same time, yeah, I've seen Diary of a Shinjunu Thief. The Japanese New Wave was outsexing its French counterpart on a regular basis. Those aren't general-audiences films. The country has a history of relative tolerance toward non-sexualized nudity, regardless of the ages the material is intended for, though that's starting to change. Weirdly, or rather just differently, it's never gone hand in hand with what Western countries might consider more tame depictions of romantic interaction.

It's nice knowing everyone on tohokingdom is an expert in Japanese culture.

I minored in it and did a study-abroad. I wouldn't call myself any kind of expert, and anyone's welcome to pop in here and tell me I don't know dick.

[Dracostar44]

Because fans really don't give a damn for any human plot they just see Godzilla kick *** and destroy **** so trying using or force romance into the plot will only make them more antsy outraged

[ZinK]

cartoons...sexualized.

There's why. Don't base reality of a nation on it's cartoons. Or films that intentionally sexualize someone or something as that's done for art or story telling reasons.

Nurses never look or dress like the sexy "Hello NURSE!" in real life, because they are nurses, not sexual fantasies in a drawing.

Nice Animaniacs reference.

[BlankAccount]

Because fans really don't give a damn for any human plot they just see Godzilla kick *** and destroy **** so trying using or force romance into the plot will only make them more antsy outraged

Actually, fans seem to be the only ones who really give a shit about the human story.

I noticed that a lot of casual movie viewers are, ironically, just there for Godzilla or rather the SFX.

[Mechagigan]

This entire thread is a pretty good explanation as to why the almost-sex scene in G'14 was a bit cringey in and of itself. Not only did we know actually nothing about any of the characters involved at that point (marking any impact it technically should have void), but it felt jarring under such a relatively family-friendly tagline...

Not that sex is absolutely too far, or anything immature like that - just that it could've been and almost was huge sore thumb.

Unrelated rant over

[Zarm]

Not that sex is absolutely too far, or anything immature like that

Despite the cultural unpopularity of such a belief, some might say that is the more mature attitude. Especially, as you say, if the audience is expected to skew younger.

[shadowgigan]

A lot of sex in movies seems forced, unnecessary and kind of awkward. Same with romances. So predictable in films these days.

[Stevo_1985]

A lot of sex in movies seems forced, unnecessary and kind of awkward. Same with romances. So predictable in films these days.

I agree. Me and my wife were watching Top Gun.. (I despise it she loves it) and using this as an example, the sex scene was unnecessary IMO. It does nothing to move or support the plot line. I could say this for a lot of movies. You can present the idea they are going to engage in coitus but to actually present the act presents nothing except reaffirming a fact you already knew was going to happen.

[eabaker]

Yeah, I tend to think most movie sex scenes are, from a narrative standpoint, just filler.

Not all the time, of course. There are cases where you absolutely advance plot, theme or characterization through how a sex scene plays out. The Fly is my go-to example here.

I can't really think of a case where a Godzilla movie would have become more meaningful through the addition of a sex scene, though.

[BlacktimusPrime]

Not that sex is absolutely too far, or anything immature like that

Despite the cultural unpopularity of such a belief, some might say that is the more mature attitude. Especially, as you say, if the audience is expected to skew younger.

Nice to see I'm not alone in this thought on tk. Nice sig, by the way.

[Spuro]

Yeah, I tend to think most movie sex scenes are, from a narrative standpoint, just filler.

Yeah, I tend to agree with that sentiment. It's why, as an amateur writer, I haven't concerned myself with learning to write sex scenes; unless they serve to advance the plot (such as in the original Terminator) or show character depth, I've never had any use for them.

But as far as Hollywood is concerned, sex sells. And for better or worse, they're right about that.

[eabaker]

Yeah, I tend to think most movie sex scenes are, from a narrative standpoint, just filler.

Yeah, I tend to agree with that sentiment. It's why, as an amateur writer, I haven't concerned myself with learning to write sex scenes; unless they serve to advance the plot (such as in the original Terminator) or show character depth, I've never had any use for them.

I'm actually directing a sex scene for the first time on a project in January. I've never written a project before where it was necessary, and the basic plan is to show as damned little as possible. A few quick shots of hands and faces will cover most of it.