Toho Kingdom

CommanderBowser wrote:I have a bit of some headcanons of Final Wars.

If you know why Gigan got defeated by Godzilla quickly, well it's because of a few factors.
One: Godzilla was forced into a do or die situation. If he didn't fire his atomic ray at Gigan, he would have killed him or injuring him, and since their in Antarctica, a painfully injury and cold weather is not a good combo. If Gigan won, the Xillens would be victorious, now think about that for a while.
Two: Gigan has not been upgraded for 12000 years, hence why he later got upgraded with Chainsaws, disks and the ability to survive having his head cut off.
Three: Gigan may have fought one or two monsters offscreen (Baragon and possibly Battra), and while Gigan won against those two, he has gotten weakened by the two enough for Godzilla to finish the job.

Godzilla was going to kill Gigan either way though, he wasn't forced, he has no sympathy lmao. Especially for Gigan. He offed him quick because Gigan hit him with a ranged attack that Godzilla easily handled with a headshot.

Once Gigan was thawed he went after Godzilla, after that he was summoned back like a giant Pokemon until the final battle, so there was no time for him to randomly kill 2 kaiju.[/quote]
Fixed it up a bit. Also Gigan was after the Gotengo, not Godzilla. The third theory would a longshot, but Gigan is not giving up his goal to take the Gotengo down. Then Godzilla took Gigan by surprise and the rest, we already know.

_JNavs_ wrote:

SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:I've kind of started classifiying classic kaiju under the Monsterverse terms, or at least how I understand them.

M.U.T.O: an abnormally large organism with strange biological traits, but in all, a simple organism.

Examples: Ebriah, Kumonga, Kamacuras, Zilla, Rhedosaurus, Skullcrawlers

Titans: M.U.T.Os with more extreme, almost god like abilities

Examples: Godzilla, Mothra, Battra, Biollante, Kong, Manda.

I agree with this, but what godlike abilities does Kong have? If anything he fits better into the MUTO category imo

basically, hes monky

Lighting Toho Kong is defiantly a Titan and the hints that theres something more about the 33 and 17 Kong make them Titans to me.

Rest could probably be M.U.T.O.s though

SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:

_JNavs_ wrote:

SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:I've kind of started classifiying classic kaiju under the Monsterverse terms, or at least how I understand them.

M.U.T.O: an abnormally large organism with strange biological traits, but in all, a simple organism.

Examples: Ebriah, Kumonga, Kamacuras, Zilla, Rhedosaurus, Skullcrawlers

Titans: M.U.T.Os with more extreme, almost god like abilities

Examples: Godzilla, Mothra, Battra, Biollante, Kong, Manda.

I agree with this, but what godlike abilities does Kong have? If anything he fits better into the MUTO category imo

basically, hes monky

Lighting Toho Kong is defiantly a Titan and the hints that theres something more about the 33 and 17 Kong make them Titans to me.

Rest could probably be M.U.T.O.s though

Okay yeah, I could see how Lightning monky Toho Kong could be considered a Titan.

33-76-05-17(so far) to me are all MUTOs though.

SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:I've kind of started classifiying classic kaiju under the Monsterverse terms, or at least how I understand them.

M.U.T.O: an abnormally large organism with strange biological traits, but in all, a simple organism.

Examples: Ebriah, Kumonga, Kamacuras, Zilla, Rhedosaurus, Skullcrawlers

Titans: M.U.T.Os with more extreme, almost god like abilities

Examples: Godzilla, Mothra, Battra, Biollante, Kong, Manda.

Maybe "MUTO" is still sort of a Monarch-only term, and "titan" is the name the mainstream scientific community used to describe giant monsters after their existence was publicly revealed after the events of G2014, and by the time of KoTM the term has gained such widespread usage that Monarch has begun to use it as well?

Like, I figure the real reason was that audiences associated the name "MUTO" with the monsters from G2014 and so the filmmakers felt they had to use a new term, or something like that, but still

G2000 wrote:

SoggyNoodles2016 wrote:I've kind of started classifiying classic kaiju under the Monsterverse terms, or at least how I understand them.

M.U.T.O: an abnormally large organism with strange biological traits, but in all, a simple organism.

Examples: Ebriah, Kumonga, Kamacuras, Zilla, Rhedosaurus, Skullcrawlers

Titans: M.U.T.Os with more extreme, almost god like abilities

Examples: Godzilla, Mothra, Battra, Biollante, Kong, Manda.

Maybe "MUTO" is still sort of a Monarch-only term, and "titan" is the name the mainstream scientific community used to describe giant monsters after their existence was publicly revealed after the events of G2014, and by the time of KoTM the term has gained such widespread usage that Monarch has begun to use it as well?

Like, I figure the real reason was that audiences associated the name "MUTO" with the monsters from G2014 and so the filmmakers felt they had to use a new term, or something like that, but still

That could be true too. That's just what I'm thinking

I think you guys are kinda forgetting what the M.U.T.O. acronym stands for: Massive UNIDENTIFIED Terrestrial Organism.

Ebirah, Kamacuras, Zilla, Kumonga... none of those guys would be M.U.T.O.s, because they're easily classifiable and identifiable. Ebirah is a lobster (or a shrimp, if you wanna be anal retentive about it and be literal with his name), Kamacuras is a praying mantis, Kumonga's a spider, and Zilla's a mutant lizard.

The Muto pair, however, defy classifications, even under today's constant restructuring. They lay eggs very similar to the eggs of fish and amphibians, but they are neither of those things (the proposed evolved placoderm theory notwithstanding). They have 8 limbs in total, and yet they are vertebrates. Their young are parasitic. Both genders start off identical but the males later undergo a chrysalis stage where a pair of their main limbs are re-purposed into wings. They have multiple eyes concentrated in two rows. Their lower jaws bare mandibles. Their skin is both armor plated and leathery.

They aren't any kind of invertebrate, they aren't fish, they aren't amphibians, reptiles, or mammals. You know what they are? Unidentified. M.U.T.O.s

Why must you slander my good name

NSZ wrote:I think you guys are kinda forgetting what the M.U.T.O. acronym stands for: Massive UNIDENTIFIED Terrestrial Organism.

Ebirah, Kamacuras, Zilla, Kumonga... none of those guys would be M.U.T.O.s, because they're easily classifiable and identifiable. Ebirah is a lobster (or a shrimp, if you wanna be anal retentive about it and be literal with his name), Kamacuras is a praying mantis, Kumonga's a spider, and Zilla's a mutant lizard.

The Muto pair, however, defy classifications, even under today's constant restructuring. They lay eggs very similar to the eggs of fish and amphibians, but they are neither of those things (the proposed evolved placoderm theory notwithstanding). They have 8 limbs in total, and yet they are vertebrates. Their young are parasitic. Both genders start off identical but the males later undergo a chrysalis stage where a pair of their main limbs are re-purposed into wings. They have multiple eyes concentrated in two rows. Their lower jaws bare mandibles. Their skin is both armor plated and leathery.

They aren't any kind of invertebrate, they aren't fish, they aren't amphibians, reptiles, or mammals. You know what they are? Unidentified. M.U.T.O.s

While your analysis of the taxonomy of the MUTOs themselves is apt, it doesn’t quite cut it as an explanation for the term as used in-universe. Going off of G2014, Kong: Skull Island, and Monsterverse comics/promotional materials prior to KoTM “MUTO” seems to be used as a catch-all term to describe any kaiju. For instance, in this scene from Skull Island, the way John Goodman uses the term seems to imply that any giant monster (Godzilla and Kong included) qualifies as a “Massive Unidentified Terrestrial Organism:”


I’m going to stick with my internal Monarch terminology vs mainstream scientific terminology of the post-G14 world headcanon for now

I have been thinking recently about Godzilla being not an evolved form of dinosaur or a sinapsid but rather the descendant of lungfishes. That might explain why he has gills but still can breathe on land.

I've been watching through the Godzilla series from top to bottom, and I've come to the conclusion that the reason that aliens keep coming to Earth is that being able to create your own kaiju is the grounds for getting on the intergalactic stage. While Earth already had it's own native kaiju - Mothra and King Kong, for instance - the birth of Godzilla also inadvertently made them a target for the universe. The Mysterians got to Earth pretty much instantly, hence them being on the moon for a few years as of the start of the movie, and other races slowly followed, travelling from far and wide to attempt to add Earth's kaiju to their collection (an ability they have because, unlike humanity, their efforts to create a kaiju where wholly intentional).

G2000 wrote:

NSZ wrote:I think you guys are kinda forgetting what the M.U.T.O. acronym stands for: Massive UNIDENTIFIED Terrestrial Organism.

Ebirah, Kamacuras, Zilla, Kumonga... none of those guys would be M.U.T.O.s, because they're easily classifiable and identifiable. Ebirah is a lobster (or a shrimp, if you wanna be anal retentive about it and be literal with his name), Kamacuras is a praying mantis, Kumonga's a spider, and Zilla's a mutant lizard.

The Muto pair, however, defy classifications, even under today's constant restructuring. They lay eggs very similar to the eggs of fish and amphibians, but they are neither of those things (the proposed evolved placoderm theory notwithstanding). They have 8 limbs in total, and yet they are vertebrates. Their young are parasitic. Both genders start off identical but the males later undergo a chrysalis stage where a pair of their main limbs are re-purposed into wings. They have multiple eyes concentrated in two rows. Their lower jaws bare mandibles. Their skin is both armor plated and leathery.

They aren't any kind of invertebrate, they aren't fish, they aren't amphibians, reptiles, or mammals. You know what they are? Unidentified. M.U.T.O.s

While your analysis of the taxonomy of the MUTOs themselves is apt, it doesn’t quite cut it as an explanation for the term as used in-universe. Going off of G2014, Kong: Skull Island, and Monsterverse comics/promotional materials prior to KoTM “MUTO” seems to be used as a catch-all term to describe any kaiju. For instance, in this scene from Skull Island, the way John Goodman uses the term seems to imply that any giant monster (Godzilla and Kong included) qualifies as a “Massive Unidentified Terrestrial Organism:”


I’m going to stick with my internal Monarch terminology vs mainstream scientific terminology of the post-G14 world headcanon for now

I think MUTO is simply a generic term used until a kaiju is given a specific designation. The Mutos were still in their cocoons when they were found by Monarch too. Remember Monarch has known about Godzilla, Mothra, Rodan, and co for years by the time of G14 so they'd no longer be considered MUTOs. Titan I think is used only for the biggest and most powerful of the Mutos. Skull Island is full of Mutos for example but I only see Kong and maybe the big Skullcrawlers actually being considered Titans. Also Godzilla, Kong, Mothra, etc appear to be tha last of their kind and exceptionally long lived which may play some part in it.

I have another headcannon for the Godzilla franchise, this time regarding a scrapped film.

Being Operation Robison Crusoe: King Kong vs Ebirah.

That film happened in the Final Wars Universe. Since Godzilla got trapped in Antarctica 2 years prior, I don't see a reason why Kong would get a chance to fight Ebirah.

There is one change. Kong may have not fought Mothra in this version, but this scrapped film, in my headcannon existed in the Final wars universe, but this is one of the few exceptions of a scrapped film appearing in a different universe.

Ebirah later was sent packing and went M.I.A, until it emerged at the wrong time and got mind controlled.

I have two regarding the 54 and Showa Godzilla:

The Showa Godzilla is the older and less malevolent brother of the 54 Godzilla, he was initially evil because he wanted revenge on mankind for killing his brother but he eventually forgave them after realizing how bad his brother's action really were and went against his own personal morals.

The Showa Godzilla is just the 54 Godzilla revived, basically I like to apply the healing factor from Godzilla: 2000 to all versions of Godzilla and I think a few remaining G-Cells survived when Serizawa killed him with the Oxygen Destroyer and those G-Cells turned regenerated into a fully healthy and living Godzilla.

King Kong Escapes is canon to the Showa series, the reason Kong is smaller in Escapes than he was in 1962 is because if the berry juice did indeed make every animal bigger on Faro Island, then Kong simply wasn't consuming it for awhile and shrunk back to his normal size. The reason Susan and other characters were surprised about Kong existing is simply due to them forgetting about the 1962 battle with Godzilla because of the many monster battles that outdid it right after it happened.

Godzilla and King Kong eventually met again off screen between Terror of Mechagodzilla and Destroy All Monsters, they briefly fought and teamed up against another monster and finally made peace. I like to think they fought a Showa version of Bagan or Destoroyah.

Before Destroy All Monsters, Godzilla fought other kaiju, including Showa incarnations of later kaiju like Biollante, Destoroyah, Orga, Spacegodzilla and maybe even the MUTOs and maybe even a few rejected kaiju like Bagan and Deutalios.

Behemoth, Scylla, Methuselah and even King Kong did participate in the events of Destroy All Monsters, they were simply off screen.

Since it was confirmed legendary Ghidorah was put on ice by Godzilla b4 his release by Alan Jonah in KOTM then I think Godzilla outta have had help. I think from Mothra & Dagon.

Gojira1604 wrote:Since it was confirmed legendary Ghidorah was put on ice by Godzilla b4 his release by Alan Jonah in KOTM then I think Godzilla outta have had help. I think from Mothra & Dagon.

KOTM does show a cave painting of Mothra helping Godzilla fight King Ghidorah. It also showed ancient humans trying to help though considering how primitive weapons were back then, I'm not sure how much help the ancient people were when King Ghidorah barely reacted to the Argo's rockets.

Ngl, the visual of two Godzillas teaming up in order to take down Ghidorah and bury him under the caps is dope as hell. Assuming he was around back then, I could definitely see Godzilla and Dagon teaming up on several occasions- especially when a threat surfaces.

Added in 1 minute 39 seconds:

Living Corpse wrote:

Gojira1604 wrote:Since it was confirmed legendary Ghidorah was put on ice by Godzilla b4 his release by Alan Jonah in KOTM then I think Godzilla outta have had help. I think from Mothra & Dagon.

KOTM does show a cave painting of Mothra helping Godzilla fight King Ghidorah. It also showed ancient humans trying to help though considering how primitive weapons were back then, I'm not sure how much help the ancient people were when King Ghidorah barely reacted to the Argo's rockets.

The world's first Darwin award winners, ladies and gentlemen

My head canon, MUTO was originally a catch all term for monsters until given a proper name later. However during the 2014 incident the public did not understand this and thought it was name, not a designation, thus the creatures that caused the 2014 incident and all related species are now called MUTO while MONARCH came up with Titan as the new catch all term for super species.

After the events of King Kong vs Godzilla....King Kong returned to his island and died of his wounds while Godzilla regenerated.

Hence why Godzilla returned over and over and Kong was never seen again.

I always thought Godzilla at the end off KKVG was buried under rubble nd rocks underwater allowing Kong to retreat.

I think ToMG happened after DAM, hence the flashback of DAM Manda (and absence of Titanosaurus on the island??)

Are there any sources stating that ToMG happened in the 70's?