Chrispy_G wrote:I don't think there is anything in GvMG or ToMG that excludes them from occurring post-1999.
All of Earth's kaiju were under human control at the end of DAM, and that's obviously not true in the Mechagodzilla Duology.
Also it would be weird if the Simeons invaded after the Kilaaks given how the timeline of Dr. Mafune and Katsura's alliance with them works.
On the subject of exiling Godzilla vs Gigan from continuity, in GvsMG it's noted that Godzilla and Anguirus are allies, but chronologically the only time the've worked together is in that film. So GvsGigan is obviously canon to the Mechagodzilla Duology. Which naturally draws in GvsMegalon and Zone Fighter... which means certain precedents are set, etc.
Kaiju-King42 wrote:
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Dannybeane wrote:The term head canon rubs me the wrong way like Styrofoam and cardboard.
Yeah, it just sounds... well, like what it is: a clunky, inorganic neologism.
But I can't think of a better term.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.
My head canon is that in Mothra vs Godzilla, Godzilla didn't mean to tear down that castle. Since he tripped, he used the castle as leverage but accidentally knocked it over while getting up because he's a clumsy fuck.
BrashAlaskan95 wrote:
UltramanGoji wrote:I hope you plan on mounting this thing.
On my wall.
I'll call it "Bob: The One Who Was skreeonk From The Start".
skreeonk scary shit though if it is just scratches.
Zilla103192 wrote:She saw Godzilla fly... And just gave up. She called bullshit, broke up with me, and just left.
This isn't the explanation I actually accept, but there's interesting theory that's been tossed around about Minilla in Destroy All Monsters-
Essentially, between the events of Terror of Mechagodzilla and DAM, Godzilla died, and the "Godzilla" seen in DAM is actually an adult Minilla. The juvenile member of Godzilla's species seen in DAM is actually Minilla's own son. This explains the seeming lack of aging between Son of Godzilla and DAM.
Kaiju-King42 wrote:
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Ivo-goji wrote: Essentially, between the events of Terror of Mechagodzilla and DAM, Godzilla died, and the "Godzilla" seen in DAM is actually an adult Minilla. The juvenile member of Godzilla's species seen in DAM is actually Minilla's own son..
Hell, for all we know, Godzilla did die in the snowstorm at the end of SoG; making Minilla the Godzilla we see throughout the 70's. Could explain Goji's new 'friendly' nature.
- After doing some thinking about his anatomy, I think I've come up with two fairly plausible classifications for Godzilla's non-Heisei, Shin, and Legendary incarnations: Either a synapsid or some kind of highly derived crocodylomorph / crocodyliforme. I personally lean towards the latter because of Godzilla's dorsal plates, osteoderms, and lack of any sort of hair, but both make sense in their own ways. I know Godzilla's obviously not just a mere animal and while one could argue that sorta takes away from his mystique to go into that much detail about his evolutionary history, I honestly feel that those two options fit a lot better with his canonical anatomy than a theropod would (aside from ceratosaurids and abelisaurids, which are known to have short skulls, four fingers, and osteoderms) at least in a modern setting. However, if the story takes place is a 1950's-1970's period piece and Gwangi and co. are considered scientifically accurate, then Godzilla being a dinosaur is perfectly justified.
Mariliasuchus had a pretty mammalian skull with fangs and molars, so a reptile like Godzilla having some mammalian traits isn't actually entirely out of the question:
(Two more outright direct comparisons of Godzilla's skull (specifically the skull of the M1 Godzilla skeleton sculpted by Takayuki Takeya) and a Mariliasuchus's skull in the third image) ^
Extant crocodilians also have bumpy / rigid "lumps" on the sides of their faces and and their nasal cavities are positioned on their skulls like Godzilla's:
Gerdzerl wrote:However, if the story takes place is a 1950's-1970's period piece and Gwangi and co. are considered scientifically accurate, then Godzilla being a dinosaur is perfectly justified.
I think any analysis of the movies and their content - beyond the most personal headcanony stuff - has to be based on that perspective.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.
Gerdzerl wrote:However, if the story takes place is a 1950's-1970's period piece and Gwangi and co. are considered scientifically accurate, then Godzilla being a dinosaur is perfectly justified.
I think any analysis of the movies and their content - beyond the most personal headcanony stuff - has to be based on that perspective.
Indeed it should.
It's pretty fun to speculate on what Godzilla and his fellow kaiju might be if they were real organisms and how their biology could possibly function.
Considering how fast and loose ALL continuity in the Showa era is...I have a hard time really being convinced that 'Oh well X can't happen because Y clearly happened in the other film so it just doesn't make logical sense'
The Showa era and 'continuity' don't really go hand in hand anyway, regardless of how you want to structure them.
"I'm saying a prayer, George. A prayer for the whole world."
Lovecraftian Interpretation of the Godzillaverse: Megalon and Mothra are Great Old Ones. Megalon originated from the Nebulan home world, and the Nebulans are his eldritch spawn. Seatopia is a colony of Megalon’s humanoid worshipers that shared the planet with his progeny before they died from over pollution. Seatopia called upon their home world to send Megalon to protect them in a time of crisis, just as they did millennia later when they required Gigan’s services, and Megalon made the Earth his new home. Most likely they were at war with the Empire of Mu, who worshiped Megalon’s rival, the Deep One Manda. In his mind warping wrath Megalon cast Mu under the waves. So taxed from this show of force the ancient god fell into death like slumber, only able to awaken temporarily when the gem housing his dark soul is lit by the Emperor of Seatopia’s prayers. He was also the one responsible for submerging Seatopia- but when The Stars Are Right Megalon will awaken in his full glory and it will rise again. All that remained of the original alien civilizations on the surface was Infant Island, where Megalon’s consort Mothra, Goddess of Rebirth, dwelled and received adoration from primitive human tribes. Her priestess is a minor Elder God that takes the form of two tiny twins and communicates Mothra’s incomprehensible will to the minds of puny humans. Their normal language cannot be understood by human beings, manifesting as a piercing bell like noise, but they are capable of speaking whatever tongue they are addressed in if the situation calls for it. They eagerly await the day Seatopia rises so Mothra and Megalon can mate to produce another race of insect like beings to assume control of the Earth, as it occurred on Megalon’s home world when he spawned the Nebulans and in Earth’s primordial past when Mothra created the Meganulon. Though Mothra defends the Earth and the sleeping Old One it houses, in her priestesses’ own words she understands neither good nor evil, being beyond such human concepts.
As Mothra’s very existence spells doom for humanity, it is easy to see why other creatures who appear to oppose her. Alas, the efforts of the Elder God King Ghidorah have proved in vain, in part because of the intervention of Godzilla and Rodan, beings spawned from the ancient science of Seatopia that turned against their creators. While the two monsters did various ills against the Great Old Ones such as devouring the Meganulon, killing one of Mothra’s incarnations, and forcing the dead Megalon to return to full sleep, they just as readily upset the plans of the Elder Gods. Yog-Sothoth at least was able to avoid them, arriving on Earth and assuming the form of Gezora, Ganime, and Kameobas to hunt down and eradicate the Great Old Ones, this too failed. Another effort arrived a year later in the form of Hedorah, an Elder God that thrives on pollution. It was his appearance that caused Megalon’s children the Nebulans to come to Earth to protect their father, enslaving King Ghidorah and using their creation Gigan to lead an invasion. It was fortunate this too was repelled by Godzilla. The Emperor of Seatopia’s attempt to awaken Megalon early was also botched by Godzilla, who had little trouble defeating the Great Old One in his dead state. But the future remains uncertain, as dead Megalon sleeps in Seatopia, dreaming...
Kaiju-King42 wrote:
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Pretty common headcannon, I think... that Godzilla 2000 actually features the matured Junior from the end of vs. Destroyah as an alternate end to the Heisei series.
That Biollante was an unabashed hero/earth-defender at film's end, and is the definite originator of Spacegodzilla.
That Miki and whats-his-name from SpacegodIla ended up together despite lack of further mention.
Last edited by Zarm on Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
KaijuCanuck wrote:It’s part of my secret plan to create a fifth column in the US, pre-emoting our glorious conquest and the creation of the Canadian Empire, upon which the sun will consistently set after less than eight hours of daylight.
The grace of God is a greater gift than we can truly fathom; undeserved mercy is a kindness humbling in its sheer scope.
The Zone Fighter campaign is complete, with all episodes subtitled! PM me if you need a link location.
So...in Godzilla 2000 they mention Godzilla's regenerative capabilities. For me personally, regardless of continuity...when I see things like that get mentioned/confirmed about Godzilla in one movie, I tend to apply it retroactively to ALL movies.
Like, since I was a kid, after seeing G2K I just kinda always accepted that Godzilla, to some extent, has heightened healing and/or regenerative capabilities.
When I see Shin Godzilla and how Godzilla was a 'constantly evolving' creature....to me, that basically creates a new avenue to retroactively apply that trait to any and every Godzilla film. Godzilla as an adapting evolutionary being.
You now have an in-universe explanation for his gradual changes over the course of the Showa era, something OTHER than 'further nuclear exposure' to explain his growing size/subtle visual changes in the Heisei era.
Works to easily explain how he can be hurt by electricity in KKvG, but later it is used to awaken him in Sea Monster...and abilities to do things like turn himself into a magnet in MG74.
This also makes one more flexible when it comes to 'headcanon' of connecting Godzilla 2000 to a previous film or entry...for me, I fancy the idea of it being Junior. But Destoroyah takes place in 96, and G2K is in 99/2000, and the tonal shift ALONG WITH the complete disappearance of G-Force and all of the Super-tech, AND Junior's altered/shrunken appearance is a bit too hard to buy with only a 3-4 year gap.
But...if you view Godzilla 2000 as a distant sequel to say, Godzilla vs Biollante....things become 'easier' to work around. G84 and Biollante have a more similar 'Godzilla centric thriller' type of tone to G2K as opposed to the more outlandish and 'hyper real' comic-book style adventures of the 90s Heisei films.
Because then you have a solid decade between the events of Biollante and G2K. Godzilla running around, making appearances at random. Plenty of time for his adaptive nature to gradually alter his appearance. Plenty of time for G-Force to dissolve or re-organize, etc
Added in 16 hours 22 minutes 2 seconds:
I've always thought about how both the Showa and Heisei series could be sort of reduced into a more abridged version, eliminating some of the films that are perhaps unnecessary or create inconsistencies, or any that anyone might prefer not to watch.
Showa Series could be reduced to 9 films
Godzilla
Raids Again
King Kong vs Godzilla
Mothra vs Godzilla
Ghidorah
Invasion of Astro-Monster
Destroy All Monsters
Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla
Terror of MechaGodzilla
For anyone interested, this could be seen as a method of eliminating some of the 'goofier' entries...as well as entries that are most heavily marred by the inconsistency of recurring stock footage.
The first 6 have a fairly reasonable 'each sort of progresses and links to the next entry' thing about them. Astro-Monster introduces aliens, and the more sci-fi element, which is taken forward a few decades and further explored in DAM, which gives enough self-contained information for the appearance of all of the other monsters, Minilla, and etc.
You get a consecutive 'Ghidorah Trilogy' in the middle of the 9 film sequence.
Heisei Series
If one wanted, they could easily drop Godzilla and Mothra: The Battle for Earth and Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla out of the lineup...bringing the Heisei Continuity down to a nice even 6 films
Godzilla
Return of Godzilla
Biollante
King Ghidorah
MechaGodzilla
Destoroyah
This results in going right from King Ghidorah into the film where they use its remains to create MechaG, keeps the more overtly fantasy elements of Mothra 92 out of the more sci-fi based Heisei series. The 94 film sort of re-using the 'Godzilla-based villain' element as well as the 'super robot' element is now passed over, as well as the 'Godzilla uses the Super Atomic Blast in the finale' that was used in the previous film. You can skip over what some don't like about the 'cutesy' little Godzilla.
Destoroyah gives enough context for Baby Godzilla growing and becoming a smaller Godzilla. It also creates a more direct through line that 'Rodan's energy being absorbed into Godzilla directly lead to Godzilla's overload in energy and eventual meltdown'
This is all just stuff that comes to mind as potential options for anyone interested. I probably have too much time on my hands.
"I'm saying a prayer, George. A prayer for the whole world."
^I can't really see leaving Son of Godzilla off the Showa list. Minya's appearance in DAM would seem a little jarring without it, plus it's just such a damned good movie; in terms of plot and characterization, I'd say it's far stronger than some of the entries you've included.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.
eabaker wrote:^I can't really see leaving Son of Godzilla off the Showa list. Minya's appearance in DAM would seem a little jarring without it, plus it's just such a damned good movie; in terms of plot and characterization, I'd say it's far stronger than some of the entries you've included.
That's fair. Believe me, I'm only throwing out ideas for the fun of it. "Kaiju Headcanon" isn't exactly a placed for crystallized opinion and reasoning. Its very definition sort of lends it to 'well here is a way someone could look at it that isn't the official way'. If anyone felt compelled at keeping the Showa series to 9, you could drop Astro-Monster and get rid of that odd '196X' business, and put Son of Godzilla in there. Godzilla starts to get personified a bit in Ghidorah, and dropping 'Son' in right after that takes it right to the next step, while opening up for many other monsters as a transition into Destroy All Monsters.
But the thing I'm really becoming a personal fan of is not only running with Godzilla 2000 and saying "All incarnations of Godzilla have advanced regenerative capabilities"...but to take the "adapting/mutating physical form" trait from Shin Godzilla...and applying that to all incarnations as well. As I said, it immediately creates a loophole and an 'in-universe reasoning' to justify Godzilla's changing/altering appearances and etc.
"I'm saying a prayer, George. A prayer for the whole world."
I like to imagine in Final Wars, Hedorah was just in the wrong place at the wrong time rather than being a controlled monster. Just minding his own business when suddenly Godzilla and Ebirah start fighting and Godzilla just decides to kill him too.
Godzilla and Baragon are two closely related species. Baragon is essentially a kind of Godzilla evolved to survive on land rather than in the ocean. His smaller size is better adapted to life out of water, and his large ears help regulate his body temperature when on the surface. Godzilla's signature dorsal plates atrophied in Baragon's species to make burrowing easier.
Kaiju-King42 wrote:
Welcome to Toho Kingdom, where every conceivable opinion, no matter how outlandish or unpopular, is a possibility among the population.
Kaltes-Herzeleid wrote:I like to imagine in Final Wars, Hedorah was just in the wrong place at the wrong time rather than being a controlled monster. Just minding his own business when suddenly Godzilla and Ebirah start fighting and Godzilla just decides to kill him too.
It makes his death funnier to me.
Hedorah: "Hmm, I'll just walk through Tokyo today. Oh hey look, it's Godzilla fighting Ebirah! Hopefully he won't notice me." Ebirah gets close to Hedorah
Hedorah: "Oh, hello there Ebirah! How's the fight going?" Godzilla rises from the water and sees Hedorah
Hedorah and Ebirah: "Oh crap."
Added in 16 hours 29 minutes 54 seconds:
Showa Godzilla can burrow.
If you have digital copy codes for movies you want to give away, I'll gladly take them!
Dillyziller wrote:Evangelion 4.0: This is (not) a joke
It opens with Shinji, Asuka, and Rei walking along the lifeless, red earth. Suddenly the ground begins to shake.
Godzilla bursts from the ground, killing the 3 pilots. Godzilla will then battle his newest opponent...
parental issues.
TitanoGoji16 wrote:"Do you think C-Rex and FeMUTO could make sweet love down by the fire and give birth to Gabara?"
That'd explain his emergence in GvMG; though, I always chalked that up as him somehow pulling a 'sneak attack' by moving low until it was time to attack the other Godzilla.
