Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

For discussions covering more than one Toho film or show that span across more than one “era.”
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LSD Jellyfish
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:56 pm

Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote:You know I wonder if Bio Wars was used in that scene because Sugiyama thought it sounded American or something.

I'd lean harder into the fact that it fits in line with Japanese 90's city aesthetics, mainly a focus on rock ballards and melodies.
You can find a lot of similar examples in anime and films at the time.

But that itself could be a byproduct of American music and other things growing in popularity, though it's hard to say beyond speculation.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Terasawa » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:20 pm

I don’t know if it was composed for that scene or any scene in particular. Sugiyama wrote ten suites that were then cut up for use in the film.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby ReiwaGodzilla » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:48 am

I think it's really dumb dislike one incarnation of a character just because he's "weaker" in comparison to an older incarnation, absolutely ignoring how good the creature is portrayed.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Jetty_Jags » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:57 am

^^ You gonna provide any examples?
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:03 am

Jetty_Jags wrote:^^ You gonna provide any examples?


GMK Baragon?
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby JAGzilla » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:21 pm

Ghidorah is an obvious example. A lot of criticism of any given incarnation tends to center on his power or lack thereof.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby HedorahIsBestGirl » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:52 pm

JAGzilla wrote:Ghidorah is an obvious example. A lot of criticism of any given incarnation tends to center on his power or lack thereof.

To be fair, a lot of fans, myself included, disliked GMK Ghidorah because of his heroic portrayal, not his lack of power. I wish Toho had allowed Kaneko to use Varan for the role as intended. However, the criticism of Heisei Ghidorah does tend to focus on his relative lack of power.

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Kaiju-King42 wrote:GMK Baragon?

GMK Baragon is awesome. He more than makes up for GMK Ghidorah. GMK's portrayal of Baragon made me love the little guy long before I saw Frankenstein vs. Baragon for the first time.
Last edited by HedorahIsBestGirl on Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:57 pm

HedorahIsBestGirl wrote:
Kaiju-King42 wrote:GMK Baragon?

GMK Baragon is awesome. He more than makes up for GMK Ghidorah. GMK's portrayal of Baragon made me love the little guy long before I saw Frankenstein vs. Baragon for the first time.


Yeah, I love the guy. He was just the first that came to mind as an example of "A kaiju weaker than his past incarnation, but who's portrayed really well."

Heisei or GMK Ghidorah, regardless of power levels, aren't portrayed as well through their puppetry as Showa is, hence I didn't bring them up.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Tamura » Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:26 am

Small brain: Godzilla 1985 is explicit anti-Soviet propaganda

Galaxy brain: Yes, it is, but The Return of Godzilla doesn’t fundamentally reject the capitalist sphere of influence that Japan and the US occupy, or the arms race, or the use of nukes as a deterrent or even as an intercept. Plus, it is the Soviets who accidentally launched the missile from a spy ship and it is the US who saves Japan, not the other way around, so there is absolutely no way the film can get potentially translated or cut so that the US looks like the bad guy and the Soviets like the good guy.

The way I see it, G85 just says the quiet part out loud. It’s more honest. G85 also kind of creates more tension and emotion the way they changed it, even if one of the intended emotions is hatred toward the Evil Empire.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Chrispy_G » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:24 am

I'm absolutely FINE with anti-soviet messagery. Filthy Soviets :P

Stepping out of the fanbase....and away from the fandom that drive me to spend a lot of time collecting, owning, and watching EVERY Godzilla movie.......objectively I think there are too many Godzilla movies. I'd love it if there series had historically taken more of a priority of 'quality over quantity'...each era always stars off with promise, and then once they switch into 'Churn them out every year', the quality or integrity dovetails.

Godzilla Raids Again was a misfire, but King Kong vs Godzilla was obviously a winning formula. They took that success and just rifled off the 'Godzilla vs another monster' formula with slight variations for years. This doesn't really make MvsG or Ghidorah suffer....but Astro-Monster is a spacey-sci-fi retread of the same dynamics of Ghidorah. Ebirah is a Kong movie with Godzilla switched in. Son of Godzilla is a frankly odd gimmick. Destroy All Monsters is absolutely legit....and feels like the narrative progression from '4 monsters in one movie' to 'one big free for all'

They could have easily taken a few years hiatus, but the success breaks that hiatus for All Monsters Attack and the early 70s movies that, while absolutely enjoyable for us fans....they are films that paint the very negative and condescending opinions of the masses about the franchise. They see a flying dropkick and dismiss the entire franchise as garbage. What if the ONLY Godzilla movies out there for people to see were the best entries?

Heisei series starts off well. Return of Godzilla is a strong refresh point for the series...could have easily been a full reboot and not changed much instead of linking to the original....but that works either way. Biollante being a legitimate sequel to that film, while having SOME slightly out-there concepts like ESP just sort of being a thing, is largely very good.

But then the Heisei series just becomes a conveyor belt of reboots of vintage characters. I get that it WORKS, but it felt like they were putting those concepts ABOVE maintaining a truly cinematic level of production and style to the movies. Destoroyah is the strongest among them and finishes it out fairly well....but is a bit too little, too late.

Each time it is kind of the same. Every era starts off with a large degree of either creative or financial success, or either doing something fresh or breaking the mold for future entries....followed by rapid-fire entries of varying degrees of quality.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby HedorahIsBestGirl » Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:49 pm

Chrispy_G wrote:Stepping out of the fanbase....and away from the fandom that drive me to spend a lot of time collecting, owning, and watching EVERY Godzilla movie.......objectively I think there are too many Godzilla movies. I'd love it if there series had historically taken more of a priority of 'quality over quantity'...each era always stars off with promise, and then once they switch into 'Churn them out every year', the quality or integrity dovetails.

I don't agree with this. The large number and wide variety of films in the Godzilla series is one of the defining aspects of the franchise. Sure, there are probably a couple of films we could do without, like Godzilla Raids Again and Godzilla's Revenge, but I don't think getting rid of these films would actually improve the quality of the franchise as a whole.

I particularly disagree with your sentiments about the 70s Godzilla films. Godzilla vs. Hedorah and Terror of Mechagodzilla are two of my favorite Godzilla films, and the franchise would appeal to me substantially less without them. The three films in between, while lesser in quality, are still stylistically interesting and entertaining enough to justify their existence. Sure, people love to mock Jet Jaguar and the ridiculous dropkick, but would you really want Godzilla vs. Megalon removed from the franchise? It brought us two fun, if outlandish, new kaiju and one of the best battle sequences in the series.

I do agree that the Heisei era was a pretty big mess but, again, while the quality of the 90s films was often mediocre, they all have their moments and brought me a lot of joy as a kid who owned them all on VHS. Even Godzilla vs. Space Godzilla, which is very possibly the worst film in the entire series, created a new foe for Godzilla who has been used effectively in other media like comics and video games.

The TriStar films is pretty horrific, but I don't think I'd wish it out of existence. It gave rise to Godzilla the Series, which I enjoy quite a bit, and I have a sneaking suspicion that Legendary's Godzilla films would be a lot worse if they didn't have the TriStar film as a perfect example of what not to do.

If I was forced to trim the Godzilla series down, I'd definitely start with the anime trilogy. They're the only Godzilla films I find completely negligible, and even then I'd much rather see those movies made better than completely erased from existence.
Last edited by HedorahIsBestGirl on Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Cryptid_Liker » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:32 pm

Rodan's role in KOTM is pretty good and also fits in with his early-Showa incarnation.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby tyrantgoji » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:32 pm

Cryptid_Liker wrote:Rodan's role in KOTM is pretty good and also fits in with his early-Showa incarnation.


Didn't you already say this?
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Cryptid_Liker » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:49 pm

tyrantgoji wrote:
Cryptid_Liker wrote:Rodan's role in KOTM is pretty good and also fits in with his early-Showa incarnation.


Didn't you already say this?

I did? Let me check my post history real quick.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Chrispy_G » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:59 pm

HedorahIsBestGirl wrote:
Chrispy_G wrote:Stepping out of the fanbase....and away from the fandom that drive me to spend a lot of time collecting, owning, and watching EVERY Godzilla movie.......objectively I think there are too many Godzilla movies. I'd love it if there series had historically taken more of a priority of 'quality over quantity'...each era always stars off with promise, and then once they switch into 'Churn them out every year', the quality or integrity dovetails.

I don't agree with this. The large number and wide variety of films in the Godzilla series is one of the defining aspects of the franchise. Sure, there are probably a couple of films we could do without, like Godzilla Raids Again and Godzilla's Revenge, but I don't think getting rid of these films would actually improve the quality of the franchise as a whole.

I particularly disagree with your sentiments about the 70s Godzilla films. Godzilla vs. Hedorah and Terror of Mechagodzilla are two of my favorite Godzilla films, and the franchise would appeal to me substantially less without them. The three films in between, while lesser in quality, are still stylistically interesting and entertaining enough to justify their existence. Sure, people love to mock Jet Jaguar and the ridiculous dropkick, but would you really want Godzilla vs. Megalon removed from the franchise? It brought us two fun, if outlandish, new kaiju and one of the best battle sequences in the series.

I do agree that the Heisei era was a pretty big mess but, again, while the quality of the 90s films was often mediocre, they all have their moments and brought me a lot of joy as a kid who owned them all on VHS. Even Godzilla vs. Space Godzilla, which is very possibly the worst film in the entire series, created a new foe for Godzilla who has been used effectively in other media like comics and video games.

The TriStar films is pretty horrific, but I don't think I'd wish it out of existence. It gave rise to Godzilla the Series, which I enjoy quite a bit, and I have a sneaking suspicion that Legendary's Godzilla films would be a lot worse if they didn't have the TriStar film as a perfect example of what not to do.

If I was forced to trim the Godzilla series down, I'd definitely start with the anime trilogy. They're the only Godzilla films I find completely negligible, and even then I'd much rather see those movies made better than completely erased from existence.


The Mechagodzilla films are definitely my favorites of the 70s. Off the top of my head, Ebirah, All Monsters Attack, Hedorah, Megalon....I wouldn't keep those. Although Godzilla vs Gigan with Megalon taking Ghidorah's spot would be best.

I think vs King Ghidorah, Mothra, MechaG II, and SpaceGodzilla....the best elements of those should be wrapped up into one movie. I like the Godzilla origins/flashback plot-line. I like Spacegodzilla as a new villain, Rodan and Godzilla dueling for the egg of Baby Godzilla is interesting too...you wrap those into one movie and you could get a good, interesting bridge to vs Destoroyah. No King Ghidorah, time travel, Mothra, Battra, MechaG or Moguera.

I think the Millennium era certainly didn't need Megaguirus or Final Wars. The only element of FW that I honestly would want to see in SOME form on film is classic Godzilla crushing Zilla. That scene needs to exist.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby HedorahIsBestGirl » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:11 pm

Chrispy_G wrote:The Mechagodzilla films are definitely my favorites of the 70s. Off the top of my head, Ebirah, All Monsters Attack, Hedorah, Megalon....I wouldn't keep those. Although Godzilla vs Gigan with Megalon taking Ghidorah's spot would be best.

Not a chance. I'd rather get rid of at least two-thirds of the movies in this series, including the entirety of the Heisei series, before Godzilla vs. Hedorah. However, I do agree with what you said earlier about Ebirah being better as a King Kong film, as originally intended. That is one change I would make.

Chrispy_G wrote:I think vs King Ghidorah, Mothra, MechaG II, and SpaceGodzilla....the best elements of those should be wrapped up into one movie. I like the Godzilla origins/flashback plot-line. I like Spacegodzilla as a new villain, Rodan and Godzilla dueling for the egg of Baby Godzilla is interesting too...you wrap those into one movie and you could get a good, interesting bridge to vs Destoroyah. No King Ghidorah, time travel, Mothra, Battra, MechaG or Moguera.

I don't know how you could possibly wrap those four movies into one. I'd be fine with getting rid of the time travel in Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, it's never worked for me. Godzilla vs. Mothra is definitely mediocre, but I really like Battra, and it would be a shame to lose him. Of the Heisei films, I'd be the most willing to part with Godzilla vs. Space Godzilla but, once again, the titular villain is interesting enough to warrant the film's existence.

Chrispy_G wrote:I think the Millennium era certainly didn't need Megaguirus or Final Wars. The only element of FW that I honestly would want to see in SOME form on film is classic Godzilla crushing Zilla. That scene needs to exist.

I'd gladly lose both Kiryu films before Megaguirus or Final Wars. Godzilla vs. Megaguirus remains, in my opinion, the most underrated film in the franchise and Megaguirus is one of my favorite recent kaiju. GFW is definitely a mess but I still have fun with it and it brought me a lot of happiness as a kid, especially when I first saw it on the big screen at G-Fest. The one Millennium film that I could do without is Tokyo SOS, although that would leave GXMG with kind of an awkward cliffhanger.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Chrispy_G » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:21 pm

I mean...you have SpaceGodzilla as the villain...fitting the role that MechaG/Moguera/Ghidorah/Mothra all fill in their films as Godzilla's opponent. Then the other side is basically the Godzilla/Rodan/Baby stuff from MechaG II....you carry over nothing from vs Mothra....and just have some character pull some flashbacks to the WWII stuff and tie that into Baby being a "Godzillasaurus" and etc....wouldn't be TOO TOO crazy to make most of that work as a single movie.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Terasawa » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:31 pm

You could lose every Godzilla movie since 1995 and I wouldn't be too upset.

But no one's touching Ebirah. That's better than most of the movies that came after it.
Last edited by Terasawa on Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby HedorahIsBestGirl » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:59 pm

Terasawa wrote:You could lose every Godzilla movie since 1995 and I wouldn't be too upset.

But no one's touching Ebirah. That's better than most of the movies that came after it.

My only problem with Ebirah is that Godzilla feels completely out of place in the film. I think replacing him with King Kong, and leaving the rest of the movie unchanged, would make it even better. Plus, we'd still have Son of Godzilla as our fun island adventure of the Godzilla series.
The sea has cobalt, it's full of mercury. Too many fumes in our oxygen!
All the smog now is choking you and me. Good Lord, where is it gonna end?
Got to get it back, someday. Got to get it back, and soon now.
For tomorrow maybe you and me...
We're movin', we're movin', movin' to the Moon now!
It's up to us to make a choice.
We know what it's worth to save the Earth!

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Terasawa » Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:12 pm

Completely out of place? I don't think so. Only when he's flirting with Daiyo. What else does Godzilla do? He sleeps in a cave, admittedly a weird location for a 50-meter reptile but I like that our characters are forced to share the same resting place as Godzilla. Then he's awakened by a thunderstorm. After that he's almost constantly in action against monsters or the Red Bamboo; it's a pretty typical adventure for Godzilla from that point on, excepting the way Fukuda and Arikawa direct those sequences. The aforementioned Daiyo bit is the only thing that truly feels like a Kong element.

And I likely wouldn't be here if not for that movie.
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