Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Garzon » Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:17 pm

UltramanGoji wrote:Humanity wasn’t driven to extinction, they evacuated the planet.


It’s been a while since I’ve seen the anime trilogy (they’re really boring and hard to remember), but how many humans were able to evacuate the planet?

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby JAGzilla » Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:42 pm

Garzon wrote:
UltramanGoji wrote:Humanity wasn’t driven to extinction, they evacuated the planet.


It’s been a while since I’ve seen the anime trilogy (they’re really boring and hard to remember), but how many humans were able to evacuate the planet?


A few hundred, maybe? It wasn't a very big ship. In any case, Godzilla would've killed the escapees if they hadn't left, so your point still stands.

I was about to agree that killing humanity to safeguard the rest of the planet might be justifiable, but you're right: all Godzilla did was wipe out most existing life even more thoroughly than humanity is likely to, leaving only a handful of mutant species that mimick him. In the long run, though, given a few million years to evolve and diversify, new ecosystems would evolve that would be literally bulletproof. Terrestrial life would benefit by becoming far more resilient.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby godjacob » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:41 pm

Garzon wrote:Here’s an opinion that I assume is pretty unpopular. Having a villainous Godzilla only really works if Godzilla either isn’t fighting any other monsters in the movie, or if the monsters he’s fighting are explicitly established as being good. If both Godzilla and the monster(s) he’s fighting are a threat to humanity, then there’s really no one to root for when you’re watching the monster brawl.

Take The Planet Eater, for example. Why should I care about seeing Godzilla fight Ghidorah if they’re both malevolent antagonists?


I figured this was gonna lead to Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, where Godzilla is by default "the hero" against Ghidorah but the second he fell Godzilla went to attack Japan himself.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Garzon » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:45 pm

godjacob wrote:
Garzon wrote:Here’s an opinion that I assume is pretty unpopular. Having a villainous Godzilla only really works if Godzilla either isn’t fighting any other monsters in the movie, or if the monsters he’s fighting are explicitly established as being good. If both Godzilla and the monster(s) he’s fighting are a threat to humanity, then there’s really no one to root for when you’re watching the monster brawl.

Take The Planet Eater, for example. Why should I care about seeing Godzilla fight Ghidorah if they’re both malevolent antagonists?


I figured this was gonna lead to Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, where Godzilla is by default "the hero" against Ghidorah but the second he fell Godzilla went to attack Japan himself.


Yeah, that film is also a problem for me in that regard, but the anime films are much more recent.

Personally, I quite like the relatively heroic take on Godzilla that the MonsterVerse has given us so far. It’s a nice change of pace from the “Godzilla hates humans because they suck” narrative. I really hope they maintain that for Godzilla vs. Kong. I’d hate for him to suddenly become the bad guy.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Living Corpse » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:58 pm

JAGzilla wrote:
Garzon wrote:
UltramanGoji wrote:Humanity wasn’t driven to extinction, they evacuated the planet.


It’s been a while since I’ve seen the anime trilogy (they’re really boring and hard to remember), but how many humans were able to evacuate the planet?


A few hundred, maybe? It wasn't a very big ship. In any case, Godzilla would've killed the escapees if they hadn't left, so your point still stands.

I was about to agree that killing humanity to safeguard the rest of the planet might be justifiable, but you're right: all Godzilla did was wipe out most existing life even more thoroughly than humanity is likely to, leaving only a handful of mutant species that mimick him. In the long run, though, given a few million years to evolve and diversify, new ecosystems would evolve that would be literally bulletproof. Terrestrial life would benefit by becoming far more resilient.


And it turns out he didn't really hate humans, it was the technology we use that harms the planet. He ignores the Houtua, it's the Servum they have to worry about. Going to space ended up being a complete waste of time, humanity was better off just building underground homes like the Houtua.

But the stuff I highlighted is one of the many, many things that bugs me about the anime trilogy, that just makes Godzilla seem just as bad if not worse than humans. How many lifeforms did he make go extinct just to hard reset the planet to a more natural state?
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby SoggyNoodles2016 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:59 pm

Garzon wrote:Personally, I quite like the relatively heroic take on Godzilla that the MonsterVerse has given us so far. It’s a nice change of pace from the “Godzilla hates humans because they suck” narrative. I really hope they maintain that for Godzilla vs. Kong. I’d hate for him to suddenly become the bad guy.


On that bit of Godzilla morality, my friend, we are in full agreement. ;)
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby godjacob » Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:27 pm

Honestly I am on the side that favors Godzilla being an anti-hero more than anything else. Him being tied to nuclear destruction is a core attribute that defines what Godzilla should be, so he should be destructive. But at the same time I do like some likeable or even somewhat heroic traits to mix. To me the Godzilla-verse is a spectrum where certain Kaiju should be evil (King Ghidorah), certain ones good (Mothra) and some something in-between (Godzilla) for a spectrum.

But the same is true for Godzillas to. We have pure evil versions, and some full blown heroes and some a mix between. Whatever one prefers is how it should go.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Tyrant_Lizard_King » Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:34 pm

This might be unpopular to some but it really pisses me off that outside Shin all recent kaiju movies seem to refuse to show the monsters destroying anything. Even the bad guy monsters are deprived of causing any serious destruction onscreen. I doubt its because of 9/11 sensitivities because guys like Bay and Emmerich get away with that poop all the time. Hell Cloverfield had plenty of destruction and it released only 7 years after 9/11 (and had a respectable box office run).

On the Emmerich note does it shock anyone else that GINO has probably the least amount of destruction of pretty much all his big "disaster epics".
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby JAGzilla » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:02 am

Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote:This might be unpopular to some but it really pisses me off that outside Shin all recent kaiju movies seem to refuse to show the monsters destroying anything. Even the bad guy monsters are deprived of causing any serious destruction onscreen. I doubt its because of 9/11 sensitivities because guys like Bay and Emmerich get away with that poop all the time. Hell Cloverfield had plenty of destruction and it released only 7 years after 9/11 (and had a respectable box office run).

On the Emmerich note does it shock anyone else that GINO has probably the least amount of destruction of pretty much all his big "disaster epics".


I generally agree with you, but I will partially contest your claim: KOTM had that cool shot of Burning Godzilla melting down the surrounding buildings as he approached Ghidorah. But yes, we need more old-fashioned destruction and military battles. Their absence is kind of strange, really, considering that even kids' cartoons like Justice League Unlimited had no problem showing buildings and even whole cities being levelled, and that was shortly after 9/11.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby godjacob » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:41 am

Tyrant_Lizard_King wrote:This might be unpopular to some but it really pisses me off that outside Shin all recent kaiju movies seem to refuse to show the monsters destroying anything. Even the bad guy monsters are deprived of causing any serious destruction onscreen. I doubt its because of 9/11 sensitivities because guys like Bay and Emmerich get away with that poop all the time. Hell Cloverfield had plenty of destruction and it released only 7 years after 9/11 (and had a respectable box office run).

On the Emmerich note does it shock anyone else that GINO has probably the least amount of destruction of pretty much all his big "disaster epics".


Yeah, I thought King Ghidorah's Alpha Call in KOM was setting up for city destruction scenes after the Monarch break out but then it just...didn't. Yeah could always use some building bashing in monster flicks.
Last edited by godjacob on Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Tyrant_Lizard_King » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:21 am

Well with Pacific Rim Del Toro intentionally steered clear of that kind of stuff. Don't know about Legendary. Even their bad guy monsters don't get to do much. Its one of the things I treasure so much about Shin Godzilla. Shin alone has arguably more destruction than probably all the MonsterVerse films combined. I can understand not having Godzilla destroy much buts its pretty much Ghidorah's forte.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Jetty_Jags » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:46 am

Ugh, I hate the nuclear blast scene. It’s arguably the only destruction we see, yet we are supposed to be cheering on what is essentially a nuke blowing Boston to pieces. But it’s ok that Boston is no longer inhabitable, because Godzilla is cool, and he wins. :roll:
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby G2000 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:58 am

Jetty_Jags wrote:Ugh, I hate the nuclear blast scene. It’s arguably the only destruction we see, yet we are supposed to be cheering on what is essentially a nuke blowing Boston to pieces. But it’s ok that Boston is no longer inhabitable, because Godzilla is cool, and he wins. :roll:


Did you hate the end of Godzilla 2000 or what
I’ll concede there was something of a difference in tone and the range of destruction was smaller, but even still
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Terasawa » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:15 am

G2000 wrote:
Jetty_Jags wrote:Ugh, I hate the nuclear blast scene. It’s arguably the only destruction we see, yet we are supposed to be cheering on what is essentially a nuke blowing Boston to pieces. But it’s ok that Boston is no longer inhabitable, because Godzilla is cool, and he wins. :roll:


Did you hate the end of Godzilla 2000 or what
I’ll concede there was something of a difference in tone and the range of destruction was smaller, but even still


The end of G2K isn't a big "hoorah!" moment. Godzilla trashes the city after the characters reiterate that reckless science was responsible for Godzilla's creation; the Japanese dialogue says nothing about Godzilla "protecting" mankind.

The end of KOTM has Godzilla annihilate Boston (with everyone in awe) and the other monsters bow to him. Oh, and according to the director it's "good" radiation. :?

Except for Godzilla's destruction of a city they're very different endings.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Jetty_Jags » Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:34 pm

I’ll be entirely honest I haven’t seen g2k in ages so I can’t honestly comment on it.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby Garzon » Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:54 pm

Regarding the lack of destruction in recent kaiju films, is it perhaps possible that the backlash to movies like Man of Steel had something to do with it?

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby SoggyNoodles2016 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:00 pm

Garzon wrote:Regarding the lack of destruction in recent kaiju films, is it perhaps possible that the backlash to movies like Man of Steel had something to do with it?


Hmmm. Possible but I doubt it. People will judge a hero who protects people like Superman harder for collateral damage then a monster who is infamous for destroying stuff like Godzilla ;)
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby DirektorSplennic » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:25 pm

I actually agree on this. We should've gotten more scenes of Ghidorah and his kaiju army causing death and destruction. The more people that die in these movies the better. It makes the whole "monster apocalypse" Ghidorah caused have more weight to it.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby eabaker » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:37 pm

JAGzilla wrote:
eabaker wrote:Here's my take on Fantasy Matches: If people enjoy them, great! They are one way of looking at these movies/characters, and it seems like they can be a lot of fun for the people who choose to participate in them.

And they have their dedicated sub-forum. The arguments involved should not be spilling over into other threads, nor should people try to use the logic of fantasy matches to try to argue against other people's perspectives on the kind of thematic and story content that UltramanGoji is talking about.


This is pretty much my take on the issue, too, but I'll also add that the last point should, in the interest of fairness, go both ways: people shouldn't try to use their perspectives on thematic and story content to argue against the logic of fantasy matches, or at least shouldn't use them to put fantasy matches down. These are two radically different ways of looking at kaiju, but neither is inherently superior. I suppose the ideal scenario is that everyone acknowledge the authorial intent of the films' stories as the real reason things on screen play out like they do, while also accepting that it's fun and okay for some people to step back from context and approach things from a who-would-win perspective.


Sure, one certainly shouldn't go into the Fantasy Matches discussions and start trying to argue that Hedorah could never lose to Mechagodzilla because it would undermine Kimura and Banno's thematic intent Godzilla vs. Hedorah.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Postby godjacob » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:42 pm

DirektorSplennic wrote:I actually agree on this. We should've gotten more scenes of Ghidorah and his kaiju army causing death and destruction. The more people that die in these movies the better. It makes the whole "monster apocalypse" Ghidorah caused have more weight to it.


Holy poop this would have been amazing! Such a wasted opportunity. Damn it now I want to see this happen in KWC or KWCE.


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