Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby ShinGi » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:57 am

Son of Godzilla is one of favorite Godzilla movies. Okay Minya is ugly and Godzilla has an ugly design in this one but everything else is great( from the other monsters , to the setting to the human characters).

Also G 98 is a dam fine monster movie.

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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby eabaker » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:05 am

ShinGi wrote:Son of Godzilla is one of favorite Godzilla movies. Okay Minya is ugly and Godzilla has an ugly design in this one but everything else is great( from the other monsters , to the setting to the human characters).


In recent years, this movie has been sufficiently reappraised by the fandom at large that I'm not sure that opinion is unpopular. :)
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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:56 am

Isn't this pretty much the same as the Kaiju Fan Confession Thread?


Anyway:
- I really like Space Amoeba for some inexplicable reason. Something about that movie - and I don't know what that something is - just really clicks with me.
- Godzilla vs King Ghidorah is my second least favorite Heisei film, after Spacegodzilla.
- Godzilla vs Destoroyah is among my all-time favorite Godzilla movies, right up with GMK and Gojira. (I remember the days when that opinion would have been among a majority of the fandom, but I guess times have changed.)
- I hold all three eras in equal regard. I think there's plenty to love in each of them, and I don't really prefer one of the other.
- Heisei King Ghidorah is my least favorite interpretation of the character.

EDIT:

- And I love Destroy all Monsters.
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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby eabaker » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:06 pm

Kaiju-King42 wrote:- And I love Destroy all Monsters.


Is that really an unpopular opinion? Maybe I'm just still stuck in 90s fandom in some ways, because I still tend to think of that as a fan favorite.
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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby Tyrant_Lizard_King » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:53 pm

I vastly prefer both Final Wars and GINO to Godzilla (2014). I even prefer Revenge, Megalon, and Space Godzilla.

I love both Minya and Little Godzilla.
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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby UltramanGoji » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:54 pm

Kaiju-King42 wrote:Isn't this pretty much the same as the Kaiju Fan Confession Thread?


Yup.

eabaker wrote:
Kaiju-King42 wrote:- And I love Destroy all Monsters.


Is that really an unpopular opinion? Maybe I'm just still stuck in 90s fandom in some ways, because I still tend to think of that as a fan favorite.


Yes it is. DAM was once revered in the fandom primarily for (and most likely only for) its city destruction scenes and final battle. Nowadays, people focus on the human story and find it to be not as good as they remembered.
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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby Tyrant_Lizard_King » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:14 pm

I never had a problem with the human story in DAM. Its plenty engaging enough to hold my interest throughout. The human stories in most Godzilla films hold my interest for the entirety of the film. The only films I find the human story bogs down the film severely are Destoroyah, Megaguirus, Against Mechagodzilla, and Godzilla (2014). Unsurprisingly they are my least favorite Godzilla movies. Its especially depressing for G14 as its human story had such a strong start. Too bad the rest of the film completely fails to capitalize on it.
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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby eabaker » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:52 pm

UltramanGoji wrote:DAM was once revered in the fandom primarily for (and most likely only for) its city destruction scenes and final battle.


Primarily, maybe, but definitely not only. The movie has great production design, some of the coolest cinematography in the series, and one of Ifukube's most memorable scores. Although the characterizations are a little flat and the pace hits a snag in the middle, there's a lot more than just the monster scenes to recommend DAM.
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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby Rodan » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:06 pm

Kaiju-King42 wrote:Isn't this pretty much the same as the Kaiju Fan Confession Thread?

To be fair, this is the name that thread probably should have. There's nothing confessional about most of its posts.

DAM is a movie to be watched in highlights. There are great moments as far as the special effects work and cinematography (though nothing wildly better than Honda's work in either Mothra movie), but it's my least favorite output from the core '60s team, and one of the only Godzilla films I'm more likely to watch in two sittings than one. Definitely near the very bottom of my list, which is surprising given the staff involved. I just find most of what makes their other work in the genre appealing is missing.

My least favorite human stories in the series probably include, off the top of my head:

DAM
Godzilla vs. Destroyah
Tokyo S.O.S.
Godzilla 2014

Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla '93 and Godzilla vs. Spacegodzilla are also in the running.
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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby eabaker » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:11 pm

Rodan wrote:DAM is... one of the only Godzilla films I'm more likely to watch in two sittings rather than one.


I'm actually much less likely to watch this one in two sittings, because it's a movie that requires me to be in such a specific mood, and the odds are against that mood arising more often than a couple of times a year.
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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby g2vd » Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:46 am

DAM with it's dub is Legendary.

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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby Mechagigan » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:56 am

What DAM really fails in, at least from a modern viewpoint, is that it's story doesn't fully entertain. The majority of the Showa era's plots were either fun in a whimsical, adventurous sense, or captivating with it's creative cast and how they interact with their settings.

We are the onlookers - whether we're feeling the drama in Gojira, or applauding the wacky eccentricity of Megalon. Showa's finest moments came when it remembered to keep us outside of the glass, flowing with it's own creativity and stylistic choices with little concern for more 'ciinematic' concepts.

DAM plays much of it's world straight - there's hardly any emotion whatsoever for what's happening reflected from the film itself. It's not subversively stoic or artistic - it really just feels plain. We can't, as an audience, feel for characters that show little feeling themselves.

This is an argument I feel plays against G'14, as well; when we simply walk next to a character rather than observe their abstract creative details - even in less thoughtful ways, such as simply giving them memorable traits Ir quirks - we don't have anything significant to analyze.

It certainly doesn't help that the human-monster ratio doesn't allow much time for Kaiju action, which could at least boost some entertainment value.

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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby godzillalives88 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:29 am

I said a lot of this in the Kaiju confessions thread, but I’ve since added to it, so I’ll post/re-post it here:

- I like the monsters fights in Godzilla Raids Again because I think speeding them up actually contributes to making them feel more animalistic.

- I agree with the consensus that Mothra vs. Godzilla is the second best Godzilla movie, but think it gets too little flak for the fact that its human drama pretty much ends after the two Happy Enterprise executives die. A stock dilemma is presented with the school children on the island, but the last twenty-minutes is basically just special effects (albeit good ones).

- Similarly, I think Godzilla vs. Monster Zero is a very strong entry, but had (up to that point) the weakest kaiju action in the series. I'm not talking about screen time, or even the stock footage, but rather the fact that the geography of the monsters converging on Japan is kind of poor. Ie, they start by invading the countryside (why?), then migrate to the city, then end up in the countryside again.

- I think War of the Gargantuas is the single most overrated kaiju movie of any era. Aside from Gaira and Sanda's battles, and some good setpieces, I just don't think there's a lot to it. Moreover, the human characters are pretty dull, and the prolonged scenes of watching military hardware being set-up border on ridiculous.

- I think Son of Godzilla has one of the best screenplays in the entire series. It balances human drama and monster action very well, and doesn’t abandon its mcguffin (the weather control apparatus) but actually makes it a central part of the plot later in the movie.

- Godzilla vs. Gigan is my least favorite Showa film. I think its human characters are fun, but the stock footage really bogs it down for me, primarily because a lot of it wasn’t necessary. That and Ghidorah and Anguirus just seem sort of there.

- I prefer Godzilla vs. Spacegodzilla to Godzilla vs. Mothra 92’.

- I prefer Godzilla vs. Spacegodzilla, Godzilla vs. Megalon, and Godzilla ’98 to Tokyo SOS.

- I find the monster designs in Pacific Rim to be kind of bland, and their characterization to be almost non-existent. To the point that if you laid out figures of all of them, I couldn’t tell you who appears in what scene (save for one or two exceptions) despite seeing the movie three times. (I do still like it though).

- I like the non-Cranston, non-Watanabe human characters in G ’14, and can genuinely say something positive about each of them.

- I don't hate King Kong Lives. In fact, in the right mood, I kinda like it.

- On the flip side, there's something about Peter Jackson's King Kong that rubs me the wrong way. It's well made on almost every level, but it seems kind of smug. It's Kong as a prestige film rather than pulp. I would compare it to a friend you used to party with, who then goes to law school and comes back all high and mighty, when the whole time you're thinking "dude, don't act like I haven't seen you try to light your arm hair on fire." I like the film overall, but I always find myself holding it at arm's length.
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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby Goji » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:32 am

-I love Minya, love Son of Godzilla, and I like Godzilla's Revenge
-Godzilla vs. Hedorah isn't only one of my favorite G films, it's one of my favorite movies, period
-Except for the score, and last 20 minutes or so, I think Destoroyah is a real slog.
-All five of the '70s films are some of my absolute favorites, warts and all
-The Return of Godzilla/(and) Godzilla 1985 is still way up there for me, though I understand why some think it's uneventful
-Destroy All Monsters is great, but it's honestly not very high on my list of Showa favorites.
-I think either version of King Kong vs. Godzilla is one of the 'funnest' things ever put on celluloid
-If I had to pick the "worst" Showa film, it's easily Godzilla Raids Again (though I still like it)

That's all I've got for now.

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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby Zarm » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:43 am

As I've said elsewhere, I like Final Wars. I'm not so hot on GMK. And both Miki and Little Godzilla are the best. (Despite which, Spacegodzilla still isn't a very good movie. I mean, i have unpopular opinions, but I'm not crazy. ;) )

Added in 3 minutes 14 seconds:
godzillalives88 wrote:- On the flip side, there's something about Peter Jackson's King Kong that rubs me the wrong way. It's well made on almost every level, but it seems kind of smug. It's Kong as a prestige film rather than pulp. I would compare it to a friend you used to party with, who then goes to law school and comes back all high and mighty, when the whole time you're thinking "dude, don't act like I haven't seen you try to light your arm hair on fire." I like the film overall, but I always find myself holding it at arm's length.


It feels like it's trying too hard to be manipulative, to me. Trying to force you to feel what PJ thinks you should feel (up to and including the absurd 'ice skating' moment, where I'm pretty sure we're supposed to be thinking 'awww, look, he's just a big, innocent guy and he could be so happy- they could be so happy together- if only the mean world would just leave them alone!'... completely forgetting that he almost certainly just killed people escaping the theater.) That was what lost me- the way it tipped its hand too blatantly in how much is was trying to manipulate my emotions.
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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby Rodan » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:53 am

godzillalives88 wrote:- I think War of the Gargantuas is the single most overrated kaiju movie of any era. Aside from Gaira and Sanda's battles, and some good setpieces, I just don't think there's a lot to it. Moreover, the human characters are pretty dull, and the prolonged scenes of watching military hardware being set-up border on ridiculous.

- I think Son of Godzilla has one of the best screenplays in the entire series. It balances human drama and monster action very well, and doesn’t abandon its mcguffin (the weather control apparatus) but actually makes it a central part of the plot later in the movie.

I'll agree with these two up and down. Gargantuas feels phoned in all over the place -- Honda has said as much -- and Son of Godzilla is a really tight script. It's one of my favorite Godzilla movies.

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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby eabaker » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:53 am

Zarm wrote:Added in 3 minutes 14 seconds:
godzillalives88 wrote:- On the flip side, there's something about Peter Jackson's King Kong that rubs me the wrong way. It's well made on almost every level, but it seems kind of smug. It's Kong as a prestige film rather than pulp. I would compare it to a friend you used to party with, who then goes to law school and comes back all high and mighty, when the whole time you're thinking "dude, don't act like I haven't seen you try to light your arm hair on fire." I like the film overall, but I always find myself holding it at arm's length.


It feels like it's trying too hard to be manipulative, to me. Trying to force you to feel what PJ thinks you should feel (up to and including the absurd 'ice skating' moment, where I'm pretty sure we're supposed to be thinking 'awww, look, he's just a big, innocent guy and he could be so happy- they could be so happy together- if only the mean world would just leave them alone!'... completely forgetting that he almost certainly just killed people escaping the theater.) That was what lost me- the way it tipped its hand too blatantly in how much is was trying to manipulate my emotions.


Agreed with both of you. Like most "prestige" films, it condescends to its audience, laying out in explicit, obnoxious detail things that better movies leave you to figure out on your own. The original sells Kong's affection for Ann, and makes him completely sympathetic to the audience, without ever having to stop the flow of the narrative to tell us what to feel. At the end of the original, Ann is still - justifiably - terrified of Kong; we have a more objective view, and can see both sides. Jackson felt compelled to bring Ann around, and in the process over-sold the sympathy we would have felt anyway.

This became even more frustrating for me when I saw the deleted scene (with unfinished effects) in which Ann is briefly rescued, then re-captured by Kong. Deleting the ice skating and replacing it with that deleted scene would keep the action going, and it would still convey Kong's affection for Ann (framed more interestingly as a need to protect her from what we know to be her saviors).
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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby LamangoKaijura » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:15 am

I like the Ultra series more then Godzilla.
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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby TheSecondComing » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:39 am

Godzilla: Final Wars didn't cause the hibernation decade. Toho burnt out the public with the stunningly dull Tezuka Trilogy, it took good word of mouth for GMK to reach the level of success that it did, and pretty much any movie they would've put out for the 50th anniversary would not have done well because they had 4 boring Godzillas and 1 pretty good one in the 5 years prior.
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Re: Godzilla Unpopular Opinions

Postby BooLugosi » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:02 pm

Goji wrote:-I love Minya, love Son of Godzilla, and I like Godzilla's Revenge
-Godzilla vs. Hedorah isn't only one of my favorite G films, it's one of my favorite movies, period
-Except for the score, and last 20 minutes or so, I think Destoroyah is a real slog.
-All five of the '70s films are some of my absolute favorites, warts and all
-The Return of Godzilla/(and) Godzilla 1985 is still way up there for me, though I understand why some think it's uneventful
-Destroy All Monsters is great, but it's honestly not very high on my list of Showa favorites.
-I think either version of King Kong vs. Godzilla is one of the 'funnest' things ever put on celluloid
-If I had to pick the "worst" Showa film, it's easily Godzilla Raids Again (though I still like it)

That's all I've got for now.

BooLugosi wrote:I think G84's design is overrated as skreeonk.

And yet, it's not (and has never really been) very popular..


Huh, I was under the impression that everyone loved it. My bad.


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