Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby Billzilla1974 » Wed May 24, 2017 7:33 pm

The fact that most of the Godzilla incarnations are mutated DINOSAURS, non of them are lizards, i don't care if that makes it simpler to the general public, a dinosaur has little in common with an iguana. Also, the original, and Showa Godzilla among others are implied to be "semi-aquatic reptile+dinosaur hybrids, according to the first movie", not every incarnation needs to not be dinosaur, because it doesn't make it any more "realistic" to have another kind of prehistoric reptile become Godzilla when his aquatic dinosaur origin is just fine.

Just because Kong beat Godzilla in 1962, doesn't mean he would beat 70s Showa G, or any other Godzilla for that matter, Godzilla is far stronger in 1975 than he is in 1962.

The misconception that any Godzilla in the movies is female/asexual/anything-but-male despite no evidence towards them being so as well as Toho confirming all of them to be male(not saying there can't be a female one in the future but every Godzilla so far is male), "Showa Godzilla is a girl because Minya" no, Godzilla never had Minya's egg, there is no indication in SoG that he did, he only adopted him because no other member of his species seemed to be left.

Then there's the whole "Zilla is a Godzilla incarnation because reasons!" debacle, even though Toho doesn't count Zilla in any way or form and has treated it as a separate creature/species since the name change, at least to my knowledge.
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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby Jiragozira14 » Wed May 24, 2017 9:53 pm

Billzilla1974 wrote:The misconception that any Godzilla in the movies is female/asexual/anything-but-male despite no evidence towards them being so as well as Toho confirming all of them to be male(not saying there can't be a female one in the future but every Godzilla so far is male), "Showa Godzilla is a girl because Minya" no, Godzilla never had Minya's egg, there is no indication in SoG that he did, he only adopted him because no other member of his species seemed to be left.

This is likely due to the impact of '98 making it's Godzilla reproduce asexually. Personally, I would love to see a movie about Godzilla meeting and interacting with an adult female of his species.

Then there's the whole "Zilla is a Godzilla incarnation because reasons!" debacle, even though Toho doesn't count Zilla in any way or form and has treated it as a separate creature/species since the name change, at least to my knowledge.

The stuff from before the switch is legally Godzilla; anything made after the name change is Zilla, if I recall right.
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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby Cybermat47 » Wed May 24, 2017 10:56 pm

King Ghidorah and Keizer Ghidorah are two different characters.

True, it's bizarre that King Ghidorah was replaced for the 50th Anniversary film, but it's true.
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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby JAGzilla » Thu May 25, 2017 6:22 am

Gerdzerl wrote:
- That "Grand King Ghidorah" is the official name of the version of King Ghidorah featured in Rebirth of Mothra III and not just a fan-made one.


This one is news to me.

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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Thu May 25, 2017 6:24 am

Cybermat47 wrote:King Ghidorah and Keizer Ghidorah are two different characters.

True, it's bizarre that King Ghidorah was replaced for the 50th Anniversary film, but it's true.

I mean technically....yes you're absolutely right, but for thematic and artistic purposes Keizer Ghidorah and King Ghidorah are the same character. Both serve the exact same thematic purpose (being the big bad finale monster, coming from outer space on a meteor, controlled by aliens, that can fire yellow lasers etc...

Also, Keizer just means King, so...

Sure then there's the copyright, but don't forget Keizer Ghidorah is called Monster X/2. King Ghidorahs name in Invasion of the Astro Monster was Monster X. In regards to the copyright, while technically distinguishing them as differing characters, remember the purpose of the name. Keizer Ghidorah was originally completely hidden from all promotional material. IIRC a different copyright was explicitly used to hide that Keizer/King Ghidorah wasn't in the film.

In fact, Keizer Ghidorah is way closer to the original than both Heisei and GMKG Ghidorahs. Heisei is a time travel man made fusion, not from outer space, while GVKG is a spiritual guardian monster. It's the same thing of Minya vs Baby Godzilla, or to a lesser degree Kiryu vs MECHAGODZILLA (they share the same copyright).


Keizer Ghidorah TECHNICALLY isn't King Ghidorah, but TOTALLY is King Ghidorah at the same time. ;)
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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Thu May 25, 2017 7:57 am

LSD Jellyfish wrote:
Cybermat47 wrote:King Ghidorah and Keizer Ghidorah are two different characters.

True, it's bizarre that King Ghidorah was replaced for the 50th Anniversary film, but it's true.

I mean technically....yes you're absolutely right, but for thematic and artistic purposes Keizer Ghidorah and King Ghidorah are the same character. Both serve the exact same thematic purpose (being the big bad finale monster, coming from outer space on a meteor, controlled by aliens, that can fire yellow lasers etc...

Also, Keizer just means King, so...

I thought Keizer meant Emperor? But, yeah, I agree that Keizer Ghidorah is different from King Ghidorah, same with Death Ghidorah.


Jiragozira14 wrote:
Billzilla1974 wrote:The misconception that any Godzilla in the movies is female/asexual/anything-but-male despite no evidence towards them being so as well as Toho confirming all of them to be male(not saying there can't be a female one in the future but every Godzilla so far is male), "Showa Godzilla is a girl because Minya" no, Godzilla never had Minya's egg, there is no indication in SoG that he did, he only adopted him because no other member of his species seemed to be left.

This is likely due to the impact of '98 making it's Godzilla reproduce asexually. Personally, I would love to see a movie about Godzilla meeting and interacting with an adult female of his species.

Yeah, that misconception bugs me alot. The idea of him meeting a female member does sound cool. They could call it Godzilla Lives! .

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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby Lain Of The Wired » Thu May 25, 2017 8:09 am

JAGzilla wrote:
Gerdzerl wrote:
- That "Grand King Ghidorah" is the official name of the version of King Ghidorah featured in Rebirth of Mothra III and not just a fan-made one.


This one is news to me.

Thats what I'm saying...
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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby ZillaJr-KaijuKing » Thu May 25, 2017 8:14 am

Not too long ago I found out there's a misconception that Zilla Jr.'s atomic breath is just a generic fire breath rather than a nuclear breath even among people who know Godzilla's atomic breath is nuclear-powered. Come on, we have in-universe, official, and interview statements pointing to it being nuclear-powered.

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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby Dr. Professor » Thu May 25, 2017 8:45 am

LSD Jellyfish wrote:King Ghidorahs name in Invasion of the Astro Monster was Monster X.

Nope. Monster Zero.
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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby Dawsbfiremind » Thu May 25, 2017 8:56 am

I hate it when you talk about GMK or Gojira and people are like, "Oh, there was never a serious Godzilla movie. They're just kid shows."
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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby Billzilla1974 » Thu May 25, 2017 10:05 am

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:
Jiragozira14 wrote:
Billzilla1974 wrote:The misconception that any Godzilla in the movies is female/asexual/anything-but-male despite no evidence towards them being so as well as Toho confirming all of them to be male(not saying there can't be a female one in the future but every Godzilla so far is male), "Showa Godzilla is a girl because Minya" no, Godzilla never had Minya's egg, there is no indication in SoG that he did, he only adopted him because no other member of his species seemed to be left.

This is likely due to the impact of '98 making it's Godzilla reproduce asexually. Personally, I would love to see a movie about Godzilla meeting and interacting with an adult female of his species.

Yeah, that misconception bugs me alot. The idea of him meeting a female member does sound cool. They could call it Godzilla Lives! .

Billzilla1974, thanks for putting me in your sig. :D

True, its probably the one misconception I hate the most, it would be interesting to see how Godzilla would react to finding out he isn't alone. (pfff, Godzilla lives, good one! :lol: )
You're welcome dude! :)
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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby Lain Of The Wired » Thu May 25, 2017 10:11 am

Billzilla1974 wrote:Then there's the whole "Zilla is a Godzilla incarnation because reasons!" debacle, even though Toho doesn't count Zilla in any way or form and has treated it as a separate creature/species since the name change, at least to my knowledge.

*Zilla & Godzilla 1998 are separate characters
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No matter what anyone says, the monster in the 98 movie WAS and always WILL be Godzilla, even if it wasn't a very good one.
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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby Billzilla1974 » Thu May 25, 2017 10:24 am

Jiragozira14 wrote:
Billzilla1974 wrote:The misconception that any Godzilla in the movies is female/asexual/anything-but-male despite no evidence towards them being so as well as Toho confirming all of them to be male(not saying there can't be a female one in the future but every Godzilla so far is male), "Showa Godzilla is a girl because Minya" no, Godzilla never had Minya's egg, there is no indication in SoG that he did, he only adopted him because no other member of his species seemed to be left.

This is likely due to the impact of '98 making it's Godzilla reproduce asexually. Personally, I would love to see a movie about Godzilla meeting and interacting with an adult female of his species.

That impact is why I dislike Zilla for the most part. That said, I think it would be amazing to see Godzilla find a female and attempt to start a family.
Then there's the whole "Zilla is a Godzilla incarnation because reasons!" debacle, even though Toho doesn't count Zilla in any way or form and has treated it as a separate creature/species since the name change, at least to my knowledge.

The stuff from before the switch is legally Godzilla; anything made after the name change is Zilla, if I recall right.[/quote]
I know no one can change what was legally Godzilla before the change, I just refuse to count it as one because of how unfaithful it was to the older Godzilla's. I would be fine if they had the design but kept his heat ray, durability, and kept Zilla male. Zilla Jr does this, but i feel like they should've done this to the first one, Jr came too late to redeem himself, at least in my opinion.
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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby Gerdzerl » Thu May 25, 2017 12:48 pm

Billzilla1974 wrote:The fact that most of the Godzilla incarnations are mutated DINOSAURS, non of them are lizards, i don't care if that makes it simpler to the general public, a dinosaur has little in common with an iguana. Also, the original, and Showa Godzilla among others are implied to be "semi-aquatic reptile+dinosaur hybrids, according to the first movie", not every incarnation needs to not be dinosaur, because it doesn't make it any more "realistic" to have another kind of prehistoric reptile become Godzilla when his aquatic dinosaur origin is just fine.


Erm, no, not quite.

All Yamane really said was that Godzilla is a member of a species of relict semiaquatic reptiles and that his kind were likely to have been contemporaries of the dinosaurs sometime during either the Jurassic Period or the Cretaceous period and that these creatures were a sort of "intermediary animals". That is to say, Godzilla and his species are, from an evolutionary standpoint, transitional between their fully land-inhabiting and fully sea-dwelling relatives.

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Note his line of "During the following period, the Cretaceous, a creature somewhere between the marine reptiles and the evolving terrestrial animals was born." He didn't use the word "dinosaur" to denote what kind of reptile Godzilla is. That, and also note that the picture used to represent the Cretaceous shows plesiosaurs, pterosaurs, mosasaurs, and Dimetrodon. All of which are not dinosaurs and share little to no relation with them.

We can't just jump to conclusions and automatically assume Godzilla's a dinosaur specifically just because it's suggested his species likely lived alongside them. Yamane's words are kind of vague and, as I said, there are numerous different non-dinosaurian evolutionary lineages Godzilla could potentially belong to, given we have no idea what his ancestors looked like.

Hell, I'll go ahead and list some of them:

*Reptiliomorpha
*Amniota
*Sauropsida
*Synapsida
*Eupelycosauria
*Sphenacodontia
*Sphenacodontidae
*Therapsida
*Parareptilia
*Eureptilia
*Neodiapsida
*Archosauriformes
*Archosauromorpha
*Avemetatarsalia
*Pterosauromorpha
*Dinosauriformes
*Dinosauromorpha
*Pseudosuchia
*Poposauroidea
*Paracrocodylomorpha
*Crocodylomorpha
*Crocodyliformes
*Mesoeucrocodylia
*Metasuchia
*Notosuchia
*Sauria
*Romeriida
*Pantestudines
*Sauropterygia

It's absolutely possible he could be a dinosaur, but we just don't know and it's better to be safe than sorry. If you have an official source confirming that Godzilla's non-Heisei incarnations are dinosaurs specifically and not just unspecified types of prehistoric reptiles, then please show me. I'm not against him being a dinosaur in the slightest, but we should make sure to carefully evaluate information that's presented to us.

Finally, it should noted that all a "dinosaur" is broadly synonymous to the general public (including most filmmakers and movie studios) with "big prehistoric reptilian animal" and not just the clade Dinosauria itself. The people at Toho who make these films are common laymen, not professional, well educated scientists. I mean, I've seen people go so far as to idiotically label skreeonking Smilodon and wooly mammoths of all things as "dinosaurs", so it's certainly possible for Godzilla to not be an actual dinosaur from an evolutionary standpoint yet still get called one.

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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby Billzilla1974 » Thu May 25, 2017 1:21 pm

Not going to quote all of that for the sake of time, but wasn't Godzilla in real life inspired from a combination of traits from a T-rex, stegosaurus, and iguanodon? if so, then its safe to say whatever Godzilla originally was, it was most likely meant to be dinosaur or at least an ancient relative.
While it has little to do with Toho, the Smithsonian has an article were they mention the ceratosaurs as a possible candidate due to the slight armor on their spines.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n ... -45639768/
Having a different origin is fine, but its not like the dinosaur origin is completely thrown out the window, as you said, Yamane was rather vague on which "land animals" Godzilla is supposedly a intermediate transition of, and while there are numerous other lineages as you've stated, Godzilla shares very few characteristics that would match many of them. Godzilla walks upright like a dinosaur, has legs and claws like a dinosaur and doesn't resemble any plesiosaur, mosasaur, and especially not Dimetrodon.
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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby Gerdzerl » Thu May 25, 2017 2:59 pm

Billzilla1974 wrote:Not going to quote all of that for the sake of time, but wasn't Godzilla in real life inspired from a combination of traits from a T-rex, stegosaurus, and iguanodon? if so, then its safe to say whatever Godzilla originally was, it was most likely meant to be dinosaur or at least an ancient relative.


His designers did use those animals as a reference, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was supposed to be one. Being inspired by a thing =/= actually being that thing.

Billzilla1974 wrote:Having a different origin is fine, but its not like the dinosaur origin is completely thrown out the window, as you said, Yamane was rather vague on which "land animals" Godzilla is supposedly a intermediate transition of, and while there are numerous other lineages as you've stated, Godzilla shares very few characteristics that would match many of them. Godzilla walks upright like a dinosaur, has legs and claws like a dinosaur and doesn't resemble any plesiosaur, mosasaur, and especially not Dimetrodon.


He doesn't resemble a dinosaur that much, either. His anatomy has more in common with pseudosuchians and especially synapsids, going off his chimeric blend of reptilian and mammalian features :

Sphagesaurid notosuchians (Such as Mariliasuchus, Notosuchus, Llanosuchus, and Caipirasuchus) all had pretty mammalian skulls with prominent canines/"fangs" (and what appear to be some sort of molars), so a reptile like Godzilla naturally having some “mammalian” traits, and not from mutation / irradiation via nuclear testing, isn’t actually entirely out of the question:



Synapsids, especially the more basal ones such as sphenacodontian eupelycosaurs also have pretty Godzilla-like skulls:

* http://www.prehistoricstore.com/newitems/764.jpg

* http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/god ... 1109220947

Returning back to pseudosuchia, notosuchians aren’t the only crocodylomorphs with similarities to Godzilla, as extant crocodilians have pseudo-ears, a “nose pad” / “muzzle”, and prominent “brows”:



* https://images-1.discordapp.net/.eJwNxM ... W_J8DBIs6I

* https://images-2.discordapp.net/.eJwNxE ... 4V0Lk_Zzmc

* https://images-1.discordapp.net/.eJwNxF ... PmI7Y0_eS4

* https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/8144069_f520.jpg[/spoiler]

Godzilla's tail looks fairly crocodilian too. It has the same sort of armored, worm-like segmentation:



Also, note that most incarnations of Godzilla have conically shaped teeth, another trait in common with (though not at all exclusive to) crocodilians and some of their relatives:



Some prehistoric crocodilian relatives, such as Postosuchus and Poposaurus, even walked bipedally like theropods and, like most incarnations of Godzilla, had thick, pillar-like legs with plantigrade feet and a non-vestigial hallux:



It should also be noted that most Godzilla's have exposed upper jaw teeth like extant crocodilians. Theropods are now thought to have most likely had completely lipped mouths with no exposed teeth when their mouths were closed, much like modern lizards and mammals.

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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby Billzilla1974 » Thu May 25, 2017 4:33 pm

Holy poop that's a ton of links!
I guess your right about his species not outright being a dinosaur, although, Godzilla's species could've also split from Archosaurs but convergent evolution gave him traits of a dinosaur as well as traits that would make people mistake him for a "pseudo-synapsid/crocodylomorph?"
until Toho goes more in depth into Godzilla's original species(other than Heisei's), which I doubt they will, I guess I'll have to accept the ambiguity of his species.
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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby Goji_Boy » Thu May 25, 2017 4:53 pm

Billzilla1974 wrote:until Toho goes more in depth into Godzilla's original species(other than Heisei's), which I doubt they will, I guess I'll have to accept the ambiguity of his species.


At least the theory of Shin Godzilla being a mutated Frilled Shark is decently convincing.

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Still ambiguous yes, but also convincing.
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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby Billzilla1974 » Thu May 25, 2017 5:03 pm

Goji_Boy wrote:
Billzilla1974 wrote:until Toho goes more in depth into Godzilla's original species(other than Heisei's), which I doubt they will, I guess I'll have to accept the ambiguity of his species.


At least the theory of Shin Godzilla being a mutated Frilled Shark is decently convincing.

Image

Still ambiguous yes, but also convincing.

You know, for Shin Godzilla that would actually make sense! the face of the frilled shark reminds me of the first land form/"Kamata-kun". I have no idea where the "micro-organism colony" idea came from.
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Re: Godzilla Misconceptions You Like To Clear Up

Postby Gerdzerl » Thu May 25, 2017 5:16 pm

Billzilla1974 wrote:
Goji_Boy wrote:
Billzilla1974 wrote:until Toho goes more in depth into Godzilla's original species(other than Heisei's), which I doubt they will, I guess I'll have to accept the ambiguity of his species.


At least the theory of Shin Godzilla being a mutated Frilled Shark is decently convincing.

Still ambiguous yes, but also convincing.

You know, for Shin Godzilla that would actually make sense! the face of the frilled shark reminds me of the first land form/"Kamata-kun". I have no idea where the "micro-organism colony" idea came from.


This should hopefully help answer your question: http://wikizilla.org/wiki/Godzilla_Misc ... ganisms.3F

The incarnation of Godzilla featured in the 2016 film Shin Godzilla is mistakenly believed by many fans to be a mutated colony of microorganisms that have combined into a single superorganism, similar to Hedorah and Destoroyah. This misconception likely arose due to Godzilla being referred to as a mixotroph, an organism that is able use a mix of different forms of energy and carbon, in the film. Because many mixotrophs are microorganisms, many fans apparently assumed that this Godzilla is the result of several mixotrophic microorganisms being mutated by nuclear waste on the sea floor and combining into a superorganism. It should be noted, however, that there exist many multicellular mixotrophs as well. Shin Godzilla's official origin put forth in the film establishes that he is an unspecified prehistoric sea creature that survived into the 1950's living on the sea floor, where he found himself surrounded by nuclear waste dumped into his habitat by the United States. The creature adapted to survive exposure to nuclear material and began consuming it as a food source, causing it to rapidly mutate over a period of sixty years until it became the first form of Godzilla seen in the film. The film does not ever suggest that Godzilla originated as a colony of microorganisms, and only describes him as some kind of prehistoric sea animal. Photographs of the barrels of nuclear waste that spawned Godzilla are shown in the film, and they have large visible bite marks in them, showing how Godzilla was able to feed on them and indicating that he originated as a multicellular animal with teeth.


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