Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a jerk)

For discussions covering more than one Toho film or show that span across more than one “era.”

What is your opinion on Godzilla's gender?

I think Godzilla is a male only
70
64%
I think Godzilla is a male, but I'm fine if he is interpreted as female
11
10%
I think Godzilla is a female only
1
1%
I think Godzilla is a female, but I'm fine if she is interpreted as male
1
1%
I think Godzilla can be interpreted with either gender
11
10%
I think Godzilla has no gender, only RAGE
13
12%
Other (please specify)
3
3%
 
Total votes: 110

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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby G2000 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:37 pm

Hauntedmech wrote:Of course he was, but that doesn't really mean much. The context of the quote is that an interviewer had asked a question that was clearly intended as a thinly-veiled stab at the lack of strong female characters in the movie, a legitimate complaint that Gareth has on a number of occasions made clear that he is somewhat ashamed of. The joke was, it can be assumed, an attempt on Gareth's part to show that he recognized the flaw and that he had no intention of making it again. The reason it's funny is because, while we all assume that Godzilla is male (Gareth himself even refers to Godzilla as "he" at that very same press conference), someone could suddenly flip that around on us and say that Godzilla is female, and no one would be the wiser, because there really is no reason to think that he's either one outside of people just offhandedly calling him that.

Really, I just don't get why some people are so invested in Godzilla being male. It's not like it makes much of a difference either way.


I think the comedy is derived less from "the gender doesn't matter" and more "pointless last minute change to keep ravening hordes happy".

Not saying the gender matters all that much, but still.
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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby edgaguirus » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:31 pm

We had a strong female in the female Muto. There's your female role.

On topic, Godzilla's gender is no consequence. Unless a script has Godzilla doing something specifically female, like laying eggs,( though I doubt Toho would ever do that considering the G 98 movie) it doesn't matter. Godzilla will still be doing what Godzilla has always done.
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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby kpa » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:21 am

Toxic Toast wrote:What dialogue in GMK do you think states that spirits motivated Godzilla's '54 attack?


I don't recall if there are any specific lines of dialogue in GMK that say that. But In the original film, Godzilla's attacks weren't random "animal on the loose" rampages like in the 1933 KING KONG and other American monster movies, but were patterned on a military invasion (Godzilla attacks shipping, then appears on an island off Japan, then begins nighttime raids on the mainland, then burns a city from one end to the other). As I explained in my previous post, Japanese moviegoers and film historians recognized this and offered the "spirits" as a possible interpretation of Godzilla's motivation all the way back to the 1950s. Shusuke Kaneko based the story of GMK on this interpretation, with GMK's Godzilla being the same creature as the original.

And in GMK, characters do ask why Godzilla specifically attacked Japan rather than other countries before and why he would attack Japan now... one of the military officials even makes a joke that Godzilla must hate Japan. The "war dead" theory is later offered as an explanation.

There are also production info and interviews about the film (in particular the excellent "Making of GMK" issue of Japanese Giants) that give more details than what is stated in the film itself.

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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby 2004Zilla » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:02 pm

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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby Toxic Toast » Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:16 pm

kpa wrote:In the original film, Godzilla's attacks weren't random "animal on the loose" rampages like in the 1933 KING KONG and other American monster movies, but were patterned on a military invasion (Godzilla attacks shipping, then appears on an island off Japan, then begins nighttime raids on the mainland, then burns a city from one end to the other).


Was that the SOP of Japanese soldiers in World War II?
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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby kpa » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:28 am

Toxic Toast wrote:
kpa wrote:In the original film, Godzilla's attacks weren't random "animal on the loose" rampages like in the 1933 KING KONG and other American monster movies, but were patterned on a military invasion (Godzilla attacks shipping, then appears on an island off Japan, then begins nighttime raids on the mainland, then burns a city from one end to the other).


Was that the SOP of Japanese soldiers in World War II?


Of course it was... don't you know anything about Japanese history?

Stupid answer for a very stupid question. :lol:

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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby Hauntedmech » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:12 pm

Now, discussions of Godzilla's actual gender aside, it seems clear from the polls that the majority of people here think of Godzilla as male only, and are either opposed to the possibility of Godzilla being portrayed as a different gender, or at least unenthusiastic about it. Obviously there's no denying that Godzilla is almost universally referred to as male and is considered male for basically all intents and purposes, but what I want to know is why so many people feel so strongly that Godzilla is male and nothing else. I've never really felt that way, and obviously I'm in the minority in that respect. So what leads the majority to that conclusion?

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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby edgaguirus » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:11 pm

I guess it's because Godzilla has shown no female aspects. Godzilla's behavoir seems male in many ways, like being fiercely territorial and abandoning an infant after saving it. It seems more male than female.
Kaiju are just like people- giant, radioactive people.

Megalon went into a bar and saw Gigan. Megalon said, " Again? I thought you gave this up."
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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby Gerdzerl » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:22 pm

Hauntedmech wrote:Now, discussions of Godzilla's actual gender aside, it seems clear from the polls that the majority of people here think of Godzilla as male only, and are either opposed to the possibility of Godzilla being portrayed as a different gender, or at least unenthusiastic about it. Obviously there's no denying that Godzilla is almost universally referred to as male and is considered male for basically all intents and purposes, but what I want to know is why so many people feel so strongly that Godzilla is male and nothing else. I've never really felt that way, and obviously I'm in the minority in that respect. So what leads the majority to that conclusion?


Because the vast majority of the Godzilla fandom is nothing but whiny, infantile purists who poop and piss themselves in fear at the thought of even minor changes in Godzilla's character.

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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby Legion1979 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:57 pm

Hauntedmech wrote:Now, discussions of Godzilla's actual gender aside, it seems clear from the polls that the majority of people here think of Godzilla as male only, and are either opposed to the possibility of Godzilla being portrayed as a different gender, or at least unenthusiastic about it. Obviously there's no denying that Godzilla is almost universally referred to as male and is considered male for basically all intents and purposes, but what I want to know is why so many people feel so strongly that Godzilla is male and nothing else. I've never really felt that way, and obviously I'm in the minority in that respect. So what leads the majority to that conclusion?


Maybe because he's been officially known as the "King of the Monsters" since the very beginning and is constantly labeled that in Japan in just about all media. The Japanese love to preface monster names with some sort of title and Godzilla has always been labeled the "King". This isn't really up for debate.

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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby Hauntedmech » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:32 pm

I hope you guys realize I'm taking notes on this.

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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby Gerdzerl » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:33 pm

Hauntedmech wrote:I hope you guys realize I'm taking notes on this.


Notes for what, exactly? I'm quite curious.

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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby omgitsgodzilla » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:35 pm

I personally don't think of Godzilla as necessarily being one sex or another, never mind necessarily conforming to the same sort of sexual dichotomy as is usually applied to humans. Sex as a biological characteristic can work very differently in other species, and even a good deal of assumptions we make about humans aren't necessarily accurate. I think, both in and out of canon, Godzilla is typically assumed to be male based on cultural associations of strength, aggression, power and destructive tendencies with masculinity. After all, Godzilla's sex is only ever actually brought up in the 1998 film; has anyone at any other time bothered to actually check? Even then, how would we know? Godzilla is unique among all life on Earth; there's no precedent for judging its sex characteristics, assuming they weren't stunted or destroyed by radiation. Even others of the same "species" couldn't have possibly gone through the exact same mutations separately.

In the end, though, Godzilla's sex and what gender humans project onto its behavior aren't really important. Godzilla is a catastrophic side effect of careless application of atomic science, the most powerful creature on earth, and a powerful metaphor.
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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby 2004Zilla » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:37 pm

Gerdzerl wrote:
Hauntedmech wrote:I hope you guys realize I'm taking notes on this.


Notes for what, exactly? I'm quite curious.

He teaches Godzillatology at the University of Berkeley, obviously.
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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby Gerdzerl » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:38 pm

2004Zilla wrote:
Gerdzerl wrote:
Hauntedmech wrote:I hope you guys realize I'm taking notes on this.


Notes for what, exactly? I'm quite curious.

He teaches Godzillatology at the University of Berkeley, obviously.


Hauntedmech is actually a lady.

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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby 2004Zilla » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:39 pm

She teaches Godzillatology at the University of Berkeley, obviously.
SuperPawnageGigan wrote:What has this thread become.

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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby Hauntedmech » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:52 pm

Correct. This is all very important research, you must understand.

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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby Vatarian » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:06 pm

omgitsgodzilla wrote:I personally don't think of Godzilla as necessarily being one sex or another, never mind necessarily conforming to the same sort of sexual dichotomy as is usually applied to humans. Sex as a biological characteristic can work very differently in other species, and even a good deal of assumptions we make about humans aren't necessarily accurate. I think, both in and out of canon, Godzilla is typically assumed to be male based on cultural associations of strength, aggression, power and destructive tendencies with masculinity. After all, Godzilla's sex is only ever actually brought up in the 1998 film; has anyone at any other time bothered to actually check? Even then, how would we know? Godzilla is unique among all life on Earth; there's no precedent for judging its sex characteristics, assuming they weren't stunted or destroyed by radiation. Even others of the same "species" couldn't have possibly gone through the exact same mutations separately.

In the end, though, Godzilla's sex and what gender humans project onto its behavior aren't really important. Godzilla is a catastrophic side effect of careless application of atomic science, the most powerful creature on earth, and a powerful metaphor.


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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby Hauntedmech » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:19 pm

Vatarian wrote:
omgitsgodzilla wrote:I personally don't think of Godzilla as necessarily being one sex or another, never mind necessarily conforming to the same sort of sexual dichotomy as is usually applied to humans. Sex as a biological characteristic can work very differently in other species, and even a good deal of assumptions we make about humans aren't necessarily accurate. I think, both in and out of canon, Godzilla is typically assumed to be male based on cultural associations of strength, aggression, power and destructive tendencies with masculinity. After all, Godzilla's sex is only ever actually brought up in the 1998 film; has anyone at any other time bothered to actually check? Even then, how would we know? Godzilla is unique among all life on Earth; there's no precedent for judging its sex characteristics, assuming they weren't stunted or destroyed by radiation. Even others of the same "species" couldn't have possibly gone through the exact same mutations separately.

In the end, though, Godzilla's sex and what gender humans project onto its behavior aren't really important. Godzilla is a catastrophic side effect of careless application of atomic science, the most powerful creature on earth, and a powerful metaphor.


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Ditto.

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Re: Godzilla's Gender: Voice your opinion (and don't be a j

Postby Toxic Toast » Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:39 pm

kpa wrote:
Toxic Toast wrote:
kpa wrote:In the original film, Godzilla's attacks weren't random "animal on the loose" rampages like in the 1933 KING KONG and other American monster movies, but were patterned on a military invasion (Godzilla attacks shipping, then appears on an island off Japan, then begins nighttime raids on the mainland, then burns a city from one end to the other).


Was that the SOP of Japanese soldiers in World War II?


Of course it was... don't you know anything about Japanese history?

Stupid answer for a very stupid question. :lol:


OK. You see, though, there's a major contradiction in what you're saying. You've drawn comparisons between the Godzilla of the '54 film and Japan's dead soldiers, but the Godzilla of GMK is explicitly not driven by Japan's dead soldiers. Just the opposite; he's driven by their victims, the people who were massacred by Imperial Japan's military at places like Nanjing and Manila. The victims' spirits brought back Godzilla to punish the citizens of 21st century Japan for forgetting - and in some cases, even denying - the atrocities committed by their ancestors.

As Ryudo Uzaki's character points out, it wouldn't even make sense for Japan's dead soldiers to attack Japan, of all places. What Japan's dead are doing in GMK is continuing to protect Japan, by being channeled through the stones to summon the guardian monsters.

If the actions of the original film's Godzilla resemble the tactics of Japanese war dead, as you insist they do, that is entirely different than the narrative of Kaneko's work.
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