Stop Motion Godzilla?

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Pkmatrix
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Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby Pkmatrix » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:21 pm

I've read in several places that Tsubaraya had originally wanted to use stop motion animation for the SPFX in Gojira, but settled on suitmation when it turned out the budget couldn't afford it. For argument's sake, let's say Toho found the money somewhere and let Tsubaraya use stop motion animation instead of suitmation. How would it have turned out? Do you think the film would have been as successful or popular as it was in real history, or would it have flopped? If successful, how do think the use of stop motion here would have affected the future of Japanese Sci-Fi and Fantasy?

It sounds really interesting, but I just can't picture the original movie with a stop-motion animated Godzilla in it!

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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby Mincecraft » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:48 pm

I'd be interested to see how it worked, but overall nothing beats good 'ol suit action.

Speaking of that, once I figure out my new camera I'll be sure to do a giant monster stopmotion!

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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby ScootaVaran » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:24 pm

Well,they did try it out for Godzilla vs Biollante.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6bFQFIVBgM




I've always wondred this too. Stopmotion back then was like CGI today so it would have changed alot.
One thing is for sure, they would have made a lot less Godzilla movies than what we have today if using stopmotion.
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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby Rody » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:39 pm

I like stop-motion animation, but I think using a suit worked to their benefit. I don't think stop-motion could have captured Godzilla's rather eerie nature as well as the suit did.

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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby Gojira1963 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:23 pm

It would have been interesting to see but I think the suit worked better.
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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby Dust_pan » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:12 pm

I can't predict how popular or different Godzilla would have been if the monsters were animated with stop motion, but it definitely would have been interesting to see.

Varan Bon Ziller wrote:
Godzillatheultimate wrote:It may be just me, but a lot of the time when I see things done in stop motion.... it seems kind of hollow and lifeless to me. I feel like the suits give the monsters more characterization and life than stop motion could.


A certain Harryhausen would like a word with you.


Indeed. Harryhausen's stop motion creatures had plenty of life and expression.
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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby eabaker » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:43 pm

I think Phil Tippet might have been able to pull off something pretty interesting with a stop motion Godzilla.
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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby JAGzilla » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:56 pm

Godzillatheultimate wrote:It may be just me, but a lot of the time when I see things done in stop motion.... it seems kind of hollow and lifeless to me. I feel like the suits give the monsters more characterization and life than stop motion could.


Agreed. Stop motion's slow, jerky movements can't help but look blatantly fake. Suit actors, being alive themselves and all, can move like actual living creatures, making it easier for me to suspend disbelief.

That said, the GvsB deleted footage was pretty cool. I really liked the tentacles circling around Godzilla, striking at him like snakes. I'm glad it was cut from the movie, though; it didn't fit at all with the rest of the effects, and would've been a very jarring change. It's a shame they couldn't do a similar scene with the props, though.

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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby PopInPicsPresents » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:02 am

Simply put, the Stop Motion in that scene doesn't look that good.
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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby Dust_pan » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:37 am

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Cranston: Oh yeah! The only Godzilla movie with an X-rating.

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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby PopInPicsPresents » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:42 am

Dust_pan wrote:
PopInPicsPresents wrote:Simply out that Stop Motion doesn't look that good.


Not even these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9kmjW73-v4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVdlxwX6A7g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 6U7_-BeGc#!


Sorry, typo on my part. What I was trying to say was that the Stop Motion in that scene didn't look that good. I'm quite the advocate for good Stop Motion if you didn't know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TNhYdh_h4g
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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby Pkmatrix » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:44 am

ScootaVaran wrote:Well,they did try it out for Godzilla vs Biollante.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6bFQFIVBgM


Yes, I was thinking of that when I wrote the OP. I'm glad they cut it - it didn't match the rest of the SPFX at all - but it was certainly interesting.

ScootaVaran wrote:I've always wondred this too. Stopmotion back then was like CGI today so it would have changed alot.
One thing is for sure, they would have made a lot less Godzilla movies than what we have today if using stopmotion.


I agree. With the freedom stop motion granated, I can only imagine what sort of amazing effects pieces Tsubaraya might have come up with!

JAGzilla wrote:
Godzillatheultimate wrote:It may be just me, but a lot of the time when I see things done in stop motion.... it seems kind of hollow and lifeless to me. I feel like the suits give the monsters more characterization and life than stop motion could.


Agreed. Stop motion's slow, jerky movements can't help but look blatantly fake. Suit actors, being alive themselves and all, can move like actual living creatures, making it easier for me to suspend disbelief.

That said, the GvsB deleted footage was pretty cool. I really liked the tentacles circling around Godzilla, striking at him like snakes. I'm glad it was cut from the movie, though; it didn't fit at all with the rest of the effects, and would've been a very jarring change. It's a shame they couldn't do a similar scene with the props, though.


I couldn't disagree more strongly!

Watch 20 Million Miles to Earth and tell me the Ymir seems "hollow and lifeless". Stop Motion was THE method of bringing fantastic creatures to life up until the 1990s, and when done properly gave amazingly expressive results. That's why I'm curious what Gojira would have been like.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love what Tsubaraya and co. pulled off with suitmation. Going back to Biollante again, I honestly can't imagine that film looking as good as it did had they gone with stop motion over suitmation (try to imagine the shot where Godzilla approaches Biollante's Rose form through the trees - I don't think that shot, in all its awesomeness, could be done any other way until CGI came along). But, the original movie? I can easily imagine the first film having some pretty amazing SPFX shots with a stop motion Godzilla instead of a suitmation one.

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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby Dust_pan » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:47 am

PopInPicsPresents wrote:
Dust_pan wrote:
PopInPicsPresents wrote:Simply out that Stop Motion doesn't look that good.


Not even these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9kmjW73-v4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVdlxwX6A7g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 6U7_-BeGc#!


Sorry, typo on my part. What I was trying to say was that the Stop Motion in that scene didn't look that good. I'm quite the advocate for good Stop Motion if you didn't know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TNhYdh_h4g


Oh. By that stop motion you meant the GvsB scene. Gotcha.

But yeah, good stop motion can make detailed figures look like lively and believable creatures.
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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby PopInPicsPresents » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:18 am

Ironically enough I just stumbled upon this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Uv1xGhWPI

This is what Godzilla would have looked like in full stop motion.
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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby Mincecraft » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:09 pm

PopInPicsPresents wrote:Ironically enough I just stumbled upon this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Uv1xGhWPI

This is what Godzilla would have looked like in full stop motion.


That is amazing.

Stop Motion takes a lot of practise to perfect (I should know, I'm working with it myself) but when you get it down....wow.

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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby eabaker » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:14 pm

Pkmatrix wrote:Watch 20 Million Miles to Earth and tell me the Ymir seems "hollow and lifeless". Stop Motion was THE method of bringing fantastic creatures to life up until the 1990s, and when done properly gave amazingly expressive results.


Heck, without King Kong and The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms, we wouldn't have Godzilla.

Ain't nobody gonna tell me King Kong was "hollow and lifeless."
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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby Mincecraft » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:43 pm

eabaker wrote:Ain't nobody gonna tell me King Kong was "hollow and lifeless."


King Kong was hollow and lifeless. :D

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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby Huan_of_Valinor » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:55 pm

isn't the Theatre scene in Gojira stop motion?
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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby PopInPicsPresents » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:11 pm

Mincecraft wrote:
PopInPicsPresents wrote:Ironically enough I just stumbled upon this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Uv1xGhWPI

This is what Godzilla would have looked like in full stop motion.


That is amazing.

Stop Motion takes a lot of practise to perfect (I should know, I'm working with it myself) but when you get it down....wow.


I mean...stop motion is the easiest thing to do in all honesty. All you need to do is take A LOT of pictures and adjust your framerate accordingly. People make it out to be this really difficult thing when it's really not. It's not so much hard as it is time consuming and tedious.
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Re: Stop Motion Godzilla?

Postby Mincecraft » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:27 pm

PopInPicsPresents wrote:
Mincecraft wrote:
PopInPicsPresents wrote:Ironically enough I just stumbled upon this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Uv1xGhWPI

This is what Godzilla would have looked like in full stop motion.


That is amazing.

Stop Motion takes a lot of practise to perfect (I should know, I'm working with it myself) but when you get it down....wow.


I mean...stop motion is the easiest thing to do in all honesty. All you need to do is take A LOT of pictures and adjust your framerate accordingly. People make it out to be this really difficult thing when it's really not. It's not so much hard as it is time consuming and tedious.


The main difficulty I have is making sure I wasn't moving the subject too much or too little, but now that I have DragonFrame I have some better tech to help me out.

Speaking of which, does anyone know a good program to add visual and audio effects? Halo stopmotions look kinda bland without plasma shots and explosions.


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