I've noticed a pattern

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Pkmatrix
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I've noticed a pattern

Postby Pkmatrix » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:27 am

I was thinking about the franchise as a whole and noticed something: if we combine the Heisei and Millennium series into one series of almost equal length to Showa (and *sigh* include Zilla'98), they both follow the same vague pattern:

The first two movies (Godzilla, GRA/G'85, GvBio) strike a darker and more serious tone that address contemporary fears. The second film adds an opponent (Anguirus in GRA, Biollante in GvBio) and the battle between that opponent and Godzilla will be unusual in comparison to later films. That movie, unfortunately, doesn't do as well as the previous one at the box office and there's a short break before the next film.

The third film (KKvG/GvKG) retools the series into something more lighthearted and fantasy-oriented, dropping the more serious approach of the previous films. It proves to be a big box office success and, as a result, the rest of the series tries to emulate it to some degree.

The fourth film introduces Mothra (MvG/GvM)

From the fifth film forward, Godzilla shifts from strictly a villain protagonist to an anti-hero who battles progressively stranger opponents. Godzilla's son will be introduced during the period after the fourth film but before the halfway point.

About halfway through, the studio produces a film intended to end the series (DAM/GvD). The film is a success, however, and the series continues. Unfortunately, it is immediately followed by a film that represents too large a shift from the norm and some call the worst in this particular series, if not the whole franchise (All Monsters Attack/Zilla'98). This disliked film will prominently feature Godzilla's son in some capacity, after which he's effectively dropped from the rest of the series.

The series then becomes experimental for several films, trying a few different approaches. Some consider this the low point and consider some of these films the worst, others herald it as a resurgence of creativity.

The series finally concludes with a Mechagodzilla duology (GvMG'74, ToMG/GxMG, Tokyo SOS).

Really, the biggest hiccup is Final Wars, which messes things up by including Minilla and being one film past the Mechagodzilla duology. Otherwise...this is surprisingly uncanny! :shock: :eh:
Last edited by Pkmatrix on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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GodzillaSpawn
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Re: I've noticed a pattern

Postby GodzillaSpawn » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:40 am

The rise in BO success after the short break (KKvG, GvKG) has alot to do with the other monster thrown in there rather than a change in atmosphere as much. King Kong vs Godzilla would have been successful anyway, and as much as people wanted to see King Ghidorah in the hesei series at that time, public interest and the fandom would have showed up for that one. But yeah there happens to be a noticeable change in the atmosphere.

Not to say your theory is wrong, because it's pretty accurate. But I think there is also a bit more coincidence thrown in there.
Last edited by GodzillaSpawn on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Pkmatrix
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Re: I've noticed a pattern

Postby Pkmatrix » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:42 am

@Living Corpse: True, however most people don't usually think of Super X as Godzilla's "opponent" in the same way as Anguirus or Biollante are in GRA or GvBio. Also, I'm not counting G2K as a "first" film here - for this to work, Heisei and Millennium are considered one long 14-film series. ^_~

@GodzillaSpawn: I think you may have a point there...

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Re: I've noticed a pattern

Postby godzilla98rules » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:55 am

Interesting.... I never thought of this before.
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Re: I've noticed a pattern

Postby Arbok » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:11 pm

Interesting observations, especially the points about both (almost) ending with a with a pair of Mechagodzilla films. You managed to find a lot of parallels with the various films. However, I do want to dissect one point:

Pkmatrix wrote:The third film (KKvG/GvKG) retools the series into something more lighthearted and fantasy-oriented, dropping the more serious approach of the previous films. It proves to be a big box office success and, as a result, the rest of the series tries to emulate it to some degree.


This applies for King Kong vs. Godzilla without a doubt, but doesn't summarize Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah very well. While Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah did better at the box office than Godzilla vs. Biollante and all of the Millennium series (all of which disappointed at the box office except GMK), it wasn't a big box office success. It sold about 2,700 tickets, which was lower than The Return of Godzilla and lower than all of the Heisei films that followed. In fact, it was lower than a 1980 re-release of Mothra vs. Godzilla, which almost sold 3,000 tickets. So okay performance at the box office better describes it.

The breakout hit of the Heisei series was the next film, Godzilla vs. Mothra, which really shaped the series from there on. In terms of revenue generated, it's the highest grossing Godzilla and was followed by three very successful films (box office wise) that either:

A. used the same director
B. used Mothra

Furthermore, when it came time to lens G2K, director Okawara was brought in once again hoping he would strike gold... while in contrast Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah's director, Omori, sadly never got to direct another Godzilla film after his 1991 effort (but did write Destoroyah at least, which is why it has his trademark American cinema homage with the Alien-like scene). It also convinced Toho to make a Mothra series in the late 1990's... although none of which were box office success stories (however, they, rather sadly, did much better than the Gamera Heisei series going on at the time... and also better than some of the Millennium Godzilla films as well).
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HeiseiGodzilla117
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Re: I've noticed a pattern

Postby HeiseiGodzilla117 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:53 pm

Living Corpse wrote: Heisei Mechagodzilla as a "character"


That's something that always bugged me. Heisei Mechagodzilla and Moguera are just like the Super X. They're glorified tanks. Not characters.

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Re: I've noticed a pattern

Postby Arbok » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:56 pm

HeiseiGodzilla117 wrote:
Living Corpse wrote: Heisei Mechagodzilla as a "character"


That's something that always bugged me. Heisei Mechagodzilla and Moguera are just like the Super X. They're glorified tanks. Not characters.


Toho classifies them as monsters. Rule of thumb seems to be if they gave the machine "eyes" (even if they don't actually function as eyes), they count as a monster and that's the rule of thumb the site uses as well.

So Moguera, Jet jaguar, Mechani-Kong, etc count as monsters since they are all relatively humanoid shaped with eye-like features in a head.
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Re: I've noticed a pattern

Postby HeiseiGodzilla117 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:08 pm

Arbok wrote:
HeiseiGodzilla117 wrote:
Living Corpse wrote: Heisei Mechagodzilla as a "character"


That's something that always bugged me. Heisei Mechagodzilla and Moguera are just like the Super X. They're glorified tanks. Not characters.


Toho classifies them as monsters. Rule of thumb seems to be if they gave the machine "eyes" (even if they don't actually function as eyes), they count as a monster and that's the rule of thumb the site uses as well.

So Moguera, Jet jaguar, Mechani-Kong, etc count as monsters since they are all relatively humanoid shaped with eye-like features in a head.


Yeah, but that's still incredibly silly to me. They lack the personality to make them characters instead of mere machines. The Showa mechs/robots are more like characters to me because they possess traits more like their organic counterparts and less like vacuum cleaners.

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Re: I've noticed a pattern

Postby Arbok » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:14 pm

Living Corpse wrote:I'm just bothred by how overlooked the Super-X's are at times. Everyone talks about how Super-Mechagodzilla was the first mech in the Heisei series to criplle him but the Super-X was the first to beat him in mere seconds and the Super-X2 forced him to retreat till they chased him with it and Super-X3, well, it beat two super monsters and stopped the end of the world with help from the GAG-MB96's.


I love Godzilla's battle with the first Super-X through Tokyo. It was unique, not like something we had seen before, and really gave a sense of menace to Godzilla as he chased the smaller ship through Tokyo after he is reborn.

That said, one has to admit there is a clearly different market value between the two. I think just about any kid, for example, would be more interested in a Moguera toy than a Super-X one simply because of how they were designed. The Super-X looks like something that is more feasible and possible, like a real military weapon. Moguera is extravagant and not really realistic for the goal from a finance perspective, but the end result is also more fantastic and therefore more marketable.

HeiseiGodzilla117 wrote:Yeah, but that's still incredibly silly to me. They lack the personality to make them characters instead of mere machines. The Showa mechs/robots are more like characters to me because they possess traits more like their organic counterparts and less like vacuum cleaners.


Jet Jaguar was the only one to have AI... the others might have had more "character", but that's how they were controlled (we can say that the Black Hole Aliens were pretty creative in how they controlled Mechagodzilla, that's clear).
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Re: I've noticed a pattern

Postby Lord Gappa » Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:22 am

Varan Bon Ziller wrote:The heisei mechs just stand there and shoot beams.

Pretty much like every other monster post GvKG.
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Re: I've noticed a pattern

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:38 am

Varan Bon Ziller wrote:
Lord Gappa wrote:
Varan Bon Ziller wrote:The heisei mechs just stand there and shoot beams.

Pretty much like every other monster post GvKG.


No, sometimes they bump each other. :lol:


At least GvD had plenty of physical combat. As did the Godzilla vs Rodan sequence.
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