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Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:51 am
by JAGzilla
What if, as is a distinct possibility, that future includes a bunch of mindless, Transformers-esque garbage sequels? Do you really want to see the franchise grow and expand in a direction like that? Blockbuster American franchises, while popular and profitable by definition, aren't automatically good.

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:20 am
by zilla-x
JAGzilla wrote:What if, as is a distinct possibility, that future includes a bunch of mindless, Transformers-esque garbage sequels? Do you really want to see the franchise grow and expand in a direction like that? Blockbuster American franchises, while popular and profitable by definition, aren't automatically good.


So you want the franchise to stay as is? Offer nothing new to the fans or bring in new generations of fans? Discuss the same old stuff every day year in and year out?

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:49 am
by JAGzilla
zilla-x wrote:So you want the franchise to stay as is? Offer nothing new to the fans or bring in new generations of fans? Discuss the same old stuff every day year in and year out?


I didn't say that. I'd like to see Toho keep making movies, though only if they get people that care working on them. Something like a '60s Showa/Heisei hybrid series might be good, a fun-but-meaningful tone with energetic Showa-esque action, and an ongoing story like Heisei's. But better, of course.

As for the fanbase, I like it the way it is. A small group of mostly-longtime fans that know and love the franchise as a whole. A flood of dumb bandwagon kids only in it for the American movies doesn't particularly appeal to me.

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:17 am
by zilla-x
JAGzilla wrote:As for the fanbase, I like it the way it is. A small group of mostly-longtime fans that know and love the franchise as a whole. A flood of dumb bandwagon kids only in it for the American movies doesn't particularly appeal to me.


I'm sorry but that sounds a little snobbish. We aren't some exclusive club. Everyone is encouraged and entitled to be a fan. Not sure why some of the fans on here are so afraid of change.

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:22 am
by Julia Bristow
probably because of the idea that some newbies may join this franchise's fanbase because of the LPG bandwagon.

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:44 am
by eabaker
I don't see anything good or bad about the fanbase growing. I am a fan of the movies, not a fan of the fandom. The size of the fanbase has no impact one way or the other on my relationship with the 28 extant Toho Godzilla movies.

And, truth be told, I don't have any burning desire for there to be more movies. I'm a fan because certain of the movies that already exist are fantastic. If someone has a real vision for a great Godzilla movie and wants to make it, great, but I see no benefit in the series existing as the heart of some merchandising empire, with no heart itself.

I'm not afraid of change (in fact, that seems a pretty glib dismissal of the valid perspectives of multiple posters); I love it when a new storyteller has an exciting take on Godzilla. But I see no particular appeal in change for change's sake, and especially not for change with the sole motivation of expanding the audience to include people who aren't interested in the stories for the aspects that have define them for six decades.

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:07 am
by gatorzilla
All I want to see is a good American Godzilla franchise....thats all. Especially if Toho has no new plans for the series for awhile.

I want the new movie to show other studios that Godzilla is worth investing in

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:16 pm
by eabaker
Legion1979 wrote:
zilla-x wrote:You know what else is sad? Fans afraid of growth and expansion in a franchise. Why shouldnt Godzilla get a blockbuster American franchise?


Because he doesn't need it.


Seriously.

I feel like the burdon of proof is being placed upon the wrong shoulders in this thread.

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:20 pm
by JVM
Honestly, this debate's stupid on both sides. We have the faction that thinks one big blockbuster movie is the secret to mainstream success and the faction that thinks this is an exclusive club.

Look, the fact is the general public is never going to see these as more than a bunch of dinosaurs fighting in cardboard cities over and over and over to no end. A new, big-budget movie won't change how people look at the old movies - it'll only reinforce the new ones. A lot of what us fans like about these movies are little things the general public would never notice. We love our monster's personalities, but to most people, that's not personality, that's really shitty suit-acting. Nobody cares about the human storylines, so half the movie's worthless to a general audience by default.

The existing movies are always going to remain this niche interest of our tiny little group, regardless of what any blockbuster film does, so neither side needs to worry so much.

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:26 pm
by eabaker
JVM wrote:the faction that thinks this is an exclusive club.


That is, at best, an unfair generalization.

I would love it if the whole world could appreciate the genius of Ishiro Honda and Eiji Tsuburaya. I just don't think getting Godzilla's face on more merchandise is going to have any effect on the reputation of the original filmmakers one way or the other.

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:34 pm
by JVM
That is, at best, an unfair generalization.

You might have noticed I also generalized the other side of the argument as well.

The over-generalization was kind of part of the point.

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:37 pm
by eabaker
JVM wrote:
That is, at best, an unfair generalization.

You might have noticed I also generalized the other side of the argument as well.

The over-generalization was kind of part of the point.


A subtle rhetorical tactic, that...

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:32 pm
by zilla-x
Legion1979 wrote:^Exactly. I really do feel like the "Godzilla needs to have mainstream success" camp wants that to happen primarily to erase decades of Japanese monster films being laughed at, so that Godzilla's career can finally be taken seriously. I can't see anything like that happening no matter how successful the LP film ends up being. Sorry. A blockbuster, 3D, Hollywood, CGI-orgy isn't suddenly going to make the original Japanese films are more popular than they already are. A new Americanized Godzilla, honestly, means nothing to me. No matter how successful this new franchise ends up, no matter how many new products the new design of the monster shows up on, it's still not TOHO's Godzilla, which is the version of the character I truly love. Sure a good half of the Millennium series was mediocre, but I'm comfortable with what we have now and I'm tried of being treated like I should turn in my "fan card" because I don't dream at night about more and more Godzilla films.


Thats your opinion that you are allowed to have but dont rag on the fans who get excited about the new stuff either. There are MANY fans on here and outside of here that are going to love BOTH the old and new.
If you don't like the new stuff thats fine. That is your opinion. But like i said dont rag on the fans who get excited about the new stuff and the future.

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:44 pm
by eabaker
zilla-x wrote:
Legion1979 wrote:^Exactly. I really do feel like the "Godzilla needs to have mainstream success" camp wants that to happen primarily to erase decades of Japanese monster films being laughed at, so that Godzilla's career can finally be taken seriously. I can't see anything like that happening no matter how successful the LP film ends up being. Sorry. A blockbuster, 3D, Hollywood, CGI-orgy isn't suddenly going to make the original Japanese films are more popular than they already are. A new Americanized Godzilla, honestly, means nothing to me. No matter how successful this new franchise ends up, no matter how many new products the new design of the monster shows up on, it's still not TOHO's Godzilla, which is the version of the character I truly love. Sure a good half of the Millennium series was mediocre, but I'm comfortable with what we have now and I'm tried of being treated like I should turn in my "fan card" because I don't dream at night about more and more Godzilla films.


Thats your opinion that you are allowed to have but dont rag on the fans who get excited about the new stuff either. There are MANY fans on here and outside of here that are going to love BOTH the old and new.
If you don't like the new stuff thats fine. That is your opinion. But like i said dont rag on the fans who get excited about the new stuff and the future.


I haven't seen anybody being "rag[ged] on" in this thread. The question was, "What is the Godzilla franchise missing?" and some of us have suggested that what it is "missing" is, in fact, a set of elements that stand to potentially counteract much of what we, personally, value about the movies. That's not a comment on those whose tastes differ from our own, it's simply a comment on our own tastes.

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:02 pm
by Lain Of The Wired
Godzilla LEGOS!

MORE Godzilla shoes!

Godzilla Bicycles!

Godzilla Chess !

Godzilla Thongs!

MORE Godzilla Games!

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:01 am
by Rody
I would rather NOT see the market over-saturated by Godzilla merchandise. As Bill Watterson said, merchandise can "cheapen the original work".

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:18 pm
by Lain Of The Wired
^ We can still get the Godzilla Thongs right?

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:39 pm
by Mincecraft
I wouldn't mind a little more awareness of the kaiju genre, mostly because it would really help us out on our donations for Kaiju Combat (not that I'm slipping in a plug or anything...).

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:41 pm
by eabaker
Mincecraft wrote:I wouldn't mind a little more awareness of the kaiju genre, mostly because it would really help us out on our donations for Kaiju Combat (not that I'm slipping in a plug or anything...).


Oh, are you the guy who's been communicating with my Gamera page on Facebook?

Re: What is the Godzilla franchise missing?

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:45 pm
by Mincecraft
eabaker wrote:
Mincecraft wrote:I wouldn't mind a little more awareness of the kaiju genre, mostly because it would really help us out on our donations for Kaiju Combat (not that I'm slipping in a plug or anything...).


Oh, are you the guy who's been communicating with my Gamera page on Facebook?


Havn't got Facebook (*gasp!*). Must be some other guy.