Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

For discussions covering more than one Toho film or show that span across more than one “era.”

Is Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

No
59
95%
Yes
3
5%
 
Total votes: 62

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natevirus
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby natevirus » Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:00 pm

Hell no, it ain't dead. And I don't think I need to explain. XD
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby Shadow » Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:44 pm

I consider it more like a volcano, much like Mt. Saint Helens.
Starts building up but still releasing the somewhat good flows, then one day... BOOOM!
It explodes with the famed glory of a thousand spartans, hit after hit of awesomeness! Then it quites down, silently waiting, to rise from the ashes and shine once more.
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby Shadow » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:13 pm

SuperSaiyan4Godzilla wrote:I will say that the genre is on life support.


So you're saying the genre is a vegetable?
I hate vegetables. :mad:
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby edgaguirus » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:57 pm

The franchise is dormant for now, but the LP film will help build interest. When Toho produces another Godzilla film, then we'll see the franchise take off again.
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby miguelnuva » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:36 pm

The Toho movies are dormant the rest of the Godzilla franchise is alive and well. We have more Godzilla now then after Final Wars was released.
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby Jirass » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:51 pm

Also, no franchise is dead when any new toy release is instantly scrutinized by hundreds of forum-dwellers like us. The interest is certainly there. When more official photos come out from the 2014 film, it will be the same.
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby Bentley » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:40 am

Shadow wrote:
SuperSaiyan4Godzilla wrote:I will say that the genre is on life support.


So you're saying the genre is a vegetable?
I hate vegetables. :mad:



Correction: you just learned that you like vegetables.

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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby darkcancer » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:59 am

I agree with what most people are saying: the franchise is dormant and/or struggling. Hopefully the break between FW and LP Godzilla will be long enough to revive some interest in monster flicks from a broader audience.
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby GodzillaSpawn » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:30 am

Well, the comic thing isn't much proof to me that the franchise is going anywhere. Comics are so inexpensive to put out but also are experiencing record lows in readership the past couple of years. This tells me that, most likely, it's the already established Godzilla fandom that is almost exclusively reading them. It's not really "growing", but IDW just saw some space for some revenue in this little fandom.

I think Godzilla's become more valuable as an icon than actually a marketable franchise. Not saying I don't think the new movie will make money, because it will, but I think the film will make a solid profit whether it's good or bad just based off of Godzilla's iconic history. People will check it out because it's going to be nostalgic, a SFX extravaganza, and, obviously, have a giant mutated dinosaur. But I don't think even that would spawn enough interest to generate a line of sequels. I think the general populace has lost some interest in the typical Godzilla film formula. The films stopped being successful because interest died out. Funding went down for Toho Godzilla films and audiences got sick of the same thing. Meanwhile, science-fiction took a turn from giant radioactive monsters (which was like almost every monster film in the '50's-'60's) to robots, cyborgs, time-traveling, and aliens. The genre became more adult-oriented and serious, yet looking realistic and coming up with new interesting ideas. This film can get great reviews, and they might pop out a sequel or two, but I sadly think that in the long-run, Godzilla will be dormant again afterwards unless they somehow really make the action scenes more exciting. No silly looking judo, wrestling movies and certainly no volleyball (unless camp and nostalgia is what they are going for). The battle scenes have to be more exciting, violent, natural, and more impactful to the human cast than they were in about 95% of the Toho-verse Godzilla films.

In my opinion, Godzilla is kind of like Mickey Mouse: Will forever be iconic, but there is a timeliness factor to be aware of. Mickey used to pop out film-after-film, but as the times changed, other heroes were needed to draw-in and connect to new audiences. He sure pops his head up still, like Godzilla, but ultimately, there is a reason why both of them have been sitting on the shelf for the past several years. But neither will ever cease to exist.
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby eabaker » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:26 am

^Very well said!

Frankly, I like Godzilla as he stands now, an icon of cinema history, a piece of the apst we can treasure. I don't feel any strong need for new Godzilla material to be released, when I have the 28 extant films to treasure and continually re-explore.
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby Shadow » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:22 pm

Bentley wrote:
Correction: you just learned that you like vegetables.


What no... you can't... do that... uh. FUUUUUUUUU
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby ScootaVaran » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:00 pm

I think the Godzilla we all know and love is dying.
The average moviegoer expects so much more then what a Toho Godzilla movie can deliver. Even if the LP Godzilla does so well and gets sequel after sequel, It wont be the same Godzilla and it will undoubtedly bring in a different set of fans that want nothing to do with the old Toho movies.

There once was a time when "Universal monsters" were all the rage for many years. They too died off in the early 50's to make way for a changing movie audience. yet they are still icons.

Like GodzillaSpawn said, Godzilla will forever be iconic.


I think the bigger question is "If Godzilla did die out, would we be satisfied with what we already have?"
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby eabaker » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:26 pm

ScootaVaran wrote:I think the bigger question is "If Godzilla did die out, would we be satisfied with what we already have?"


Good lord yes!

In 1954, Ishiro Honda, Tomoyuki Tanaka, Eiji Tsuburaya, Shigeru Kayama, and Takeo Murata caught lightning in a bottle.

Everything else sicne has been extra toppings on that already delicious sundae. (And, over time, the new topings have proved increasingly redundant and/or unappetizing.)
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby Tohosaurus » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:37 pm

In 1954, Godzilla stood for so much more than an irradiated dinosaur and the movie stood for so much more than a sci-fi flick. The same was true in 1984 (not on the same scale or quality, but I digress). Godzilla could stand for something more once again, with messages in the movie, some obvious and others a bit more subliminal. And that's exactly why I think ultimately Godzilla movies can survive. We might not get them as often as we used to, but if we get one or a few "better" ones then I'm okay with that too.
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby eabaker » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:46 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:All franchises stay in a coma for a while. The James Bond franchise in a coma for a few years after Die Another Day came out and The Alien franchise was in a coma for nearly 15 years until Prometheus came out. If you want to use non movie example, anime/manga series like Dragon Ball was pretty dead until 2008 when they start to give us more stuff like the 2008 Jump Special and we now getting a new animated movie in 2013.


You're just not counting the AVP movies at all?
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby eabaker » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:15 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:
eabaker wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:All franchises stay in a coma for a while. The James Bond franchise in a coma for a few years after Die Another Day came out and The Alien franchise was in a coma for nearly 15 years until Prometheus came out. If you want to use non movie example, anime/manga series like Dragon Ball was pretty dead until 2008 when they start to give us more stuff like the 2008 Jump Special and we now getting a new animated movie in 2013.


You're just not counting the AVP movies at all?


Those are spin off movies, they are not viewed as apart of the Alien series.


That's fan nitpicking. In terms of public perception, and studio investment, they were keeping the Alien franchise alive.
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby Tohosaurus » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:58 pm

Aaaaaaaaaanyway, back on topic:

I could see at least some short term popularity since daikaiju films seem to be getting at least a bit more popular in the coming few years.
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby GodzillaSpawn » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:52 pm

What I'm curious about is, would LP Godzilla series, if there is one, be more successful if they stuck to serious themes and mature content? Or would audiences soon get sick of that, and they would eventually have to lighten the mood and target children a bit more to sustain that success, much like the Showa series? To me, that's part of the ambition of the Showa series. Their lighthearted films were full of heart (redundant?) and passion (especially early on). The Hesei series got dull and lazy, and tried to be too preachy and thematic at the end. I honestly feel that is the bigger crime when dealing with Godzilla.

If you are going to be make Godzilla films serious, you have to find new ways to make audiences feel like they aren't watching the same movie over and over with the standard insert-new-monster-here formula.

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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby Tohosaurus » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:26 pm

GodzillaSpawn wrote:What I'm curious about is, would LP Godzilla series, if there is one, be more successful if they stuck to serious themes and mature content? Or would audiences soon get sick of that, and they would eventually have to lighten the mood and target children a bit more to sustain that success, much like the Showa series? To me, that's part of the ambition of the Showa series. Their lighthearted films were full of heart (redundant?) and passion (especially early on). The Hesei series got dull and lazy, and tried to be too preachy and thematic at the end. I honestly feel that is the bigger crime when dealing with Godzilla.

If you are going to be make Godzilla films serious, you have to find new ways to make audiences feel like they aren't watching the same movie over and over with the standard insert-new-monster-here formula.

This hypothetical LPG series would probably only last three or four movies total, so I'd argue it wouldn't be long running enough to get old.

My issue with the Heisei series post-Biollante was a lack of good movies, not really preachy. Annoying characters, poor effects, and lousy scripts.
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Re: Do you consider Godzilla a "dead" franchise?

Postby GodzillaSpawn » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:38 pm

Really? Lucky you.

I literally cringe at the last-minute "You know, I've learned something today" type of forced dialogue that is shoved down our thoats before the credits roll, especially in the range from Godzilla vs. Mothra through Godzilla vs. Space Godzilla.

But all those other things you mentioned only make it more painful.


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